Demaree - supers need extracting soon

[boywonder]

Hi again. Sorry, another numpty question. If I need to deal with swarming, I usually do a Pagden AS, or variant thereof. I want, however, to try a Demaree on a particular hive, in which I today saw (and knocked-down) some early-stage charged cells.

This hive has two supers, which are largely full, but only partly capped. I suspect that they will be capped by next weekend, when I would ideally like to take them off for extraction.

So, I understand both the principle and the practice of a Demaree, and the reasons for retaining some separation between the top and bottom boxes.

If I, say, went back and did this tomorrow, I am guessing I might be OK to take the capped supers (assuming they get capped) in a few days; maybe replacing these with (at least) one empty super, to retain some separation between the two boxes ??

Or is that not the done thing in this scenario? Thanks

 

[Swarm]

Charged cells, you're too late to Demarree.

 

[boywonder]

Charged cells, you're too late to Demarree.

Interesting. Is this the consensus ??

I did not think a Demaree needed to be wholly pre-emptive. I will go back to the books, but there are well respected recources out there - e.g. (https://theapiarist.org/demaree-swarm-control/) who say you can use it reactively, if QCs are found.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Lots of literature on doing it after you find queen cells but you run the danger of the bees swarming anyway as they are in swarm mode and are very good at hiding queen cells. You have two brood boxes to check after all and at this time of year with a big vibrant colony I might even be on 5 day inspections. That’s hard work. I’ve always left the honey in the supers till I take the Demaree down.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Interesting. Is this the consensus ??

I did not think a Demaree needed to be wholly pre-emptive. I will go back to the books, but there are well respected recources out there - e.g. (https://theapiarist.org/demaree-swarm-control/) who say you can use it reactively, if QCs are found.

They are wrong - the chances of a Demarree working if done after finding QC's are slim - and that is the concensus

 

[boywonder]

They are wrong - the chances of a Demarree working if done after finding QC's are slim - and that is the concensus

Thanks JBM. That's why I asked about consensus ... as the collected real-life experience here is more relevant than any text.

Apart from the matter of pheremones though (it all happening in the same stack), I don't see the massive difference in principle (other than horizontal/vertical) between a Demaree and a Pagden.... but, I guess that's where listening to the bees is important.

Thanks again.

 

[mdotb]

Apart from the matter of pheremones though (it all happening in the same stack), I don't see the massive difference in principle (other than horizontal/vertical) between a Demaree and a Pagden....

In a "Pagden" the two parts of the colony are separated, in a "Demaree" they remain as a single hive (often with an extra queen excluder, and with some people's approaches, only a limited amount of contact area). Demaree's method does not therefore "split" the colony, and cannot be considered an artificial swarm. There are vertical "split" methods - these are not "Demarees".

I grow frustrated by the "overuse" of previous beekeeper's names to continue to refer to manipulations as they are modified further and further away from what that beekeeper actually wrote or did, and the wide ranging use of Demaree at present is certainly exercising that. Someone very helpfully posted some of George Demaree's original papers on here a couple of years back. He very clearly wasn't trying to split the colony, but to keep the whole population together in a single hive to provide a larger foraging workforce. It is possible (and apparently popular at present) to raise queen cells in a vertically "split" colony, and also to "artificially swarm" a colony vertically, however if you keep a colony that is well established in swarm preparations together (which G.D.s method is designed to do) then it is likely to swarm regardless.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In a "Pagden" the two parts of the colony are separated, in a "Demaree" they remain as a single hive (often with an extra queen excluder, and with some people's approaches, only a limited amount of contact area). Demaree's method does not therefore "split" the colony, and cannot be considered an artificial swarm. There are vertical "split" methods - these are not "Demarees".

I grow frustrated by the "overuse" of previous beekeeper's names to continue to refer to manipulations as they are modified further and further away from what that beekeeper actually wrote or did, and the wide ranging use of Demaree at present is certainly exercising that. Someone very helpfully posted some of George Demaree's original papers on here a couple of years back. He very clearly wasn't trying to split the colony, but to keep the whole population together in a single hive to provide a larger foraging workforce. It is possible (and apparently popular at present) to raise queen cells in a vertically "split" colony, and also to "artificially swarm" a colony vertically, however if you keep a colony that is well established in swarm preparations together (which G.D.s method is designed to do) then it is likely to swarm regardless.

It seems this year that Demarree is the 'word of the month' with countless posts on here about it.
I basically use Demarree's method (the only QX he used was to ensure the queen in the bottom brood box stayed there) for the original purpose - to separate the queen from the brood hence avoiding swarm preparations
The top QX with the modified Demarree 'floor' was just triggered by something I read about someone getting upset about drones in the honey (!) but developed into a method of obtaining a few QC's for making up nucs and a way of bleeding the drones off as soon as they emerge.
Demarree actually did use the system after QC's were found but after the swarm had flown and been recaptured He would then tear down all the QC's, put all the brood in the top box then dump the swarm back in the bottom box with nothing but foundation.
I've always maintained that my method is a modification of the Demarree system, calling it a Demarree is just a lazy way of not having to explain the whole thing every time (that bloody worked well didn't it?)

And it was I that posted Demarree's original article on here, however I seem to have mislaid his second article which did mention a few extra tweaks he thought of later.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Demaree seems to be the new nadired super
I have a top entrance for the drones too.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Ain't that the truth!