Demaree in WBC hives

[Beedogg]

Reading the very useful sticky about Demaree (which I have not yet tried but have on my 'do do' list for next season) I was struck by the suggestion of making an alternative entrance in the top Brood Box. How does that work with a WBC hive? Is it important?

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you are simply going to remove the top box once queen cells are made then it’s not important at all. If you are rolling it you need somewhere for the drones to leave and if you are getting your new queen mated there it’s essential

 

[Beedogg]

OK, that's clear. So how does one manage that with a WBC? Do I put/make and eke with an entrance in it to go under the top brood-box? If I do then bees from both boxes will be using the same main [outer] entrance to the hive. Is that a problem?

There's no danger that the queen from the Q+ box will migrate up between the inner and outer skins of the hive to join the Q- box, thus negating the purpose of the split?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think you should abandon your idea of doing it with a WBC to be honest unless you can separate the lifts where the top entrance over the QX is

 

[bingevader]

What's your thinking Dani?
If a board with an entrance was fitted, then as Beedogg has said, the bees would leave by the same main entrance.
We've only ever split from our WBC for swarming, so using the Demaree method sounds interesting.

 

[Boston Bees]

If a board with an entrance was fitted, then as Beedogg has said, the bees would leave by the same main entrance.

Not the drones, because they couldn't fit through the queen excluder - nor could a new queen if you let one emerge up in the top box.

But as Erichalfbee says, I can't see how you can demaree with WBC lifts in place all the way up. You could just remove the upper lift(s) I guess?

 

[bingevader]

Not the drones, because they couldn't fit through the queen excluder - nor could a new queen if you let one emerge up in the top box.
But as Erichalfbee says, I can't see how you can demaree with WBC lifts in place all the way up. You could just remove the upper lift(s) I guess?

Because you'd put in a board with an entrance in it between the top super and the Demaree brood box?
The bees would then leave using the space between the boxes and the lifts.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Reading the very useful sticky about Demaree (which I have not yet tried but have on my 'do do' list for next season) I was struck by the suggestion of making an alternative entrance in the top Brood Box. How does that work with a WBC hive? Is it important?

Ask @elainemary she has done a demaree with a wbc hive if I recall.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Reading the very useful sticky about Demaree (which I have not yet tried but have on my 'do do' list for next season) I was struck by the suggestion of making an alternative entrance in the top Brood Box. How does that work with a WBC hive? Is it important?

It's not. The upper entrance is just an fairly recent twist. Demarree never used an upper entrance, and I didn't at first until I wanted a smaller QX area to hold back the queen pheromone, so I added an entrance at the same time.
as long as you do weekly inspections, any drones in the top box will get out when you inspect.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In my experience, doing a unite, a week is too long and I find dead drones in the excluder. I would hazard that would be the same in a Demaree?

 

[Ian123]

Just drill a hole in the bb, then 1 in the lift and stick a bit of inch hose through.(available in larger pond/fish shops) hose can be pushed in as you add corresponding lift/boxes. Levels do change if you add boxes below though.

 

[Newbeeneil]

If I was doing it I would put an entrance/exit in the crown board by taking a notch out of the upstand and remove the ventilator cone in the roof. They would quickly find their way out.

 

[elainemary]

@Beedogg I had some boards made using some old Smith hive excluders I bought for £1 for a stack of them at an auction. Local joiner made the boards using pine offcuts to my design to straddle the lifts and rest on top of the brood box. Works well. Like to let the drones out, hate seeing them trapped in a queen excluder trying to get out

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In my experience, doing a unite, a week is too long and I find dead drones in the excluder. I would hazard that would be the same in a Demaree?

I didn't find that, Demarree never mentioned it either

 

[user 819]

Adapt a CB with an entrance like a Snelgrove board, simply cut a piece of the bee space edge/rim out with two angle cuts before cutting drill a pilot hole and add small #4 x 5/8 screw. Open and close the new entrance as wished.
As Neil has said leave a cone escape out or drill a hole in the lift and use cork to block up when not required.

 

[elainemary]

Adapt a CB with an entrance like a Snelgrove board, simply cut a piece of the bee space edge/rim out with two angle cuts before cutting drill a pilot hole and add small #4 x 5/8 screw. Open and close the new entrance as wished.
As Neil has said leave a cone escape out or drill a hole in the lift and use cork to block up when not required.

I’d advise against drilling the lifts. As well as spoiling the look with bullet holes, they could let in robber bees or wasps looking for weaknesses, wind , rain etc unless a hosepipe will be left for ever. Ive adapted a CB for polyhives and it works well but too small for WBCs as wouldn't be big enough straddle the lifts. A hosepipe whilst functional for that one short purpose, would look terrible & spoil an expensive piece of kit. Best to do a proper job and make a board that works year after years.

 

[Beedogg]

So, just to be clear @elainemary the board lets the drones and bees out of the upper BB but inside the envelope of lifts. Then they use the same main exit as the other bees? Is that correct?

Related question. In a Demaree, what is the function of the super(s) between the two BBs? What if one simply put the BB with brood above the QE and the Q+ BB below it?

 

[elainemary]

So, just to be clear @elainemary the board lets the drones and bees out of the upper BB but inside the envelope of lifts. Then they use the same main exit as the other bees? Is that correct?

Related question. In a Demaree, what is the function of the super(s) between the two BBs? What if one simply put the BB with brood above the QE and the Q+ BB below it?

No the board sits beneath the second brood box and is at the same height of the lifts, so the bees go in / out through the board directly down into the second brood box from the outside. That’s assuming the inner configuration is floor, bottom brood box, super, super, wbc Demaree board, brood box. You build the lifts up to the point you add the board then add the board, then a second brood box sits on top of the board then another lift sits on top of the board to the roof

Best way to understand it is to use a spare wbc and work it through.

If the configuration is different, you may need to make an eke to fill in any height gap between the box and lifts. For example, I have used this board to act as a Bailey board as well, for a Bailey comb exchange. The inner configuration here is floor, brood box, board, brood box, supers. Use the outer lifts and eke to surround up to the roof. Here’s pics to explain

Know this must sound complex but once you get your head round it and mock it up with a spare hive it’s easy and works. My problem is I can see the problem & solution, but don’t have the woodworking skills to solve. So delegate to a friendly local joiner that doesn’t cost the earth, or sweet talk hubby when he’s got the spare time

 

[elainemary]

So, just to be clear @elainemary the board lets the drones and bees out of the upper BB but inside the envelope of lifts. Then they use the same main exit as the other bees? Is that correct?

Related question. In a Demaree, what is the function of the super(s) between the two BBs? What if one simply put the BB with brood above the QE and the Q+ BB below it?

Second part of question. Purpose of supers is for somewhere for flying bees who remain with queen in bottom box to put their stores. Also gives separation, so most nurse bees and brood are further away from queen, so reducing the chance of swarming urge starting

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Related question. In a Demaree, what is the function of the super(s) between the two BBs? What if one simply put the BB with brood above the QE and the Q+ BB below it?

It's to separate the queen from the brood, just putting a QX between the two deeps would just be making a double brood chamber but just the queen can't get at the existing brood , by separating the two broods with other boxes you are just giving the impression of two separate hives. George Demarree didn't specify two supers between the two boxes, just that the brood should be put on an 'upper storey' above the QX. I think he purposefully didn't use the words brood box and super to make sure it didn't evolve into a debate about when does a shallow or deep becomes a super.