Deformed Wing Syndrome questions

[nickyjay]

Evening all.
I was sitting watching my hive this afternoon when I noticed a house bee carrying what appeared to be a dead bee. It dropped her a few feet away. I picked her up to see she had deformed wing syndrome
I have my first round of brood hatching and lots of new workers have been taking orientation flights. What worries me is that I just happened to notice this one bee get dropped, which had DFS, so how many more have been born this way and expelled.
The varroa count last week was 2 in 24hrs. The colony is less than a month old and was started on fresh foundation.

I may be overreacting but seeing it has made me worry a little. What are the acceptable levels of DFS? Everything I have read links it back to Varroa levels, yet they don't appear to be too high just yet. I do not plan on any honey harvest this year so should I be considering treating for varroa now as a safeguard?

Or am I just being overprotective and it's normal to see this?

Thx N

 

[mbc]

How many frames of brood do you have ? 2 varroa a day is quite high for a small nuc.

 

[nickyjay]

5 frames plus 1 of stores.

 

[oliver90owner]

Check carefully at the next inspection for living but deformed bees.

This is a fresh nuc? From a good supplier or one of the throw-them-together merchants? Or a collected swarm?

I would suspect the brood has been derived from an infested colony and your varroa load may increase alarmingly over the coming weeks, but it is only a suspicion and would easily be checked by observation. If it proves to be the case that there is a considerable infestation, it needs to be dealt with immediately. The DEFRA booklet or download on 'Managing Varroa' is your help for this.

RAB

 

[nickyjay]

Hi Oliver,
Thanks for the advice. I already have the DEFRA booklet you mention. It was a package.

I will check properly when I next inspect and have put the tray back in to get another count.

One of the teachers on my course said he picks out any DWS bees and removes them, making it sound as if it's normal. What count of living DFS bees would make it a 'considerable infestation' in your opinion?

N

 

[oliver90owner]

In that case, the supplied bees seem to have been infested with varroa? Bad form if they were and so unecessary. Your problem will now be that most are reproducing in cells, so only the 12-20% phoretic mites.

I would be treating/taking measures if I found any deformed house bees in the colony.

Normally I don't need an excuse to reduce the varroa level, it's just on-going.

RAB

 

[oliver90owner]

In that case, the supplied bees seem to have been infested with varroa? Bad form if they were and so unecessary. Your problem will now be that most are reproducing in cells, so only the 15-20% phoretic mites.

I would be treating/taking measures if I found any deformed house bees in the colony.

Normally I don't need an excuse to reduce the varroa level, it's just on-going.

RAB

 

[nickyjay]

Ok. In the first 2 weeks, I was getting 1 or 2 mites a week. This seemed to be acceptable.

Now 2 a day for what is still a small colony, seems high. The FERA book says 10 a day for a normal colony in June is reaching dangerous levels. If you do the math, it seems my levels may not be too far off that. I have maybe 10-15k bees.

As there are no supers, would you advise I start treatment with Apiguard now? I have no drone brood to remove.

Thx N

 

[mbc]

Might as well but I'd only treat with a little less than half a full 50g dose at a time with only 5 frames of brood

 

[nickyjay]

Ok, I have put the tray back in to get another count. Will also check for anymore bees with deformed wing syndrome and then take it from there.

I was thinking that as the varroa would have been without cells to lay in for a while, it would mean the first lot of larvae to be capped would have got the lions share of mites laying in them, meaning the first bees to hatch would be more exposed than the bees that were to follow. Thus more likely causing DFS in this first batch due to the intensity of mites laying. Or am I way of the Mark?

 

[mbc]

Not way off, but the varroa will be expanding their population as quickly as the bees if you let them

 

[MuswellMetro]

it is possible to see the difference between normal brood and DWV brood on developed brood but it takes time to get accustomed to the differences

at about 15 days stage the caps of the normal brood are dark and slightly domed , DWV capped brood is slightly less dome and the DWV cappings though marginally the same colour are more translucent , all i can describe it as is like the difference between capped honey and capped crystallized honey but about 10% of the visual clues

if you see some brood just slightly flatter and slight different use your tweezera to remove a single bee pupa and compare it to a pupa from domed brood in the same batch of brood

 

[nickyjay]

That's really helpful, thanks MM.

 

[nickyjay]

Found another 3 or 4 young bees hobbling around the hive today, one had DWS an other seemed to have stiff back legs and a mite stuck to it's thorax. The rest just seemed weak and slightly under developed.
Have treated with 25g of Apiguard. Can't say it felt great putting it in. Considered other forms of treatment like varroa gard but went with one that is proven to be effective.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

May be worth putting in a super frame near the edge of the brood which should encourage the queen to lay drone brood (which mites prefer) on the bottom of the frame and which you can then also monitor for infestation once capped and remove if necessary.

 

[nickyjay]

May be worth putting in a super frame near the edge of the brood which should encourage the queen to lay drone brood (which mites prefer) on the bottom of the frame and which you can then also monitor for infestation once capped and remove if necessary.

Ok, I presume a super with foundation. Will the queen keep laying while thymol is applied? Thx, Nick

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Ok, I presume a super with foundation. Will the queen keep laying while thymol is applied? Thx, Nick

Foundation is fine, already drawn if you have it is better. She may or may not lay while thymol applied.

 

[MuswellMetro]

if the thymol vapour gets too strong she will stop laying so it depends on the ambient temperature and how long the apiguard has been on

( ps dont sell any honey this year)


what is your mite drop now per week, and also report back on the first week with Apiguard

 

[nickyjay]

No chance of her stopping laying given the current weather then! Have been getting 2 a day, so around 14 a week on 5 frame colony. Will post drop after first week.
When would one expect to see the thymol taking effect?

 

[nickyjay]

Ok, just to update, I have had the Apiguard in place for one week now. The varroa drop before treatment was around 14 a week. After the first week treatment using 25g of Apiguard the drop is 122.

Bearing in mind the colony is still a nucleus with around 5/6 frames of brood and stores, does this sound like the colony needed treating?

nick