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Daughter colonys acting so different.

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Finman 

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Lol yes I get it I was just trying to get the snow pixie to justify his comment, the breeders I use are island or isolated mated.
Lol lol.... question was not about your queens. Curly raised 6 queens and sold them. And Curly wanders, why his queens swarmed.

And to 123pixie I say, that I do not justify your queens. Ask a Document from the seller. And you can do it yourself.
.
 
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Michael ECB's 

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Lol yes I get it I was just trying to get the snow pixie to justify his comment, the breeders I use are island or isolated mated.
Thank you all.....
I'm learning so much here..... "Snow Pixie"..... Never heard of such a thing....:laughing-smiley-004
Very descriptive - I can actually picture it.... Little "Forest Fairy" dithering in the cold.....

No offense intended Mr Finman....
 

Finman 

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Thank you all.....
I'm learning so much here..... "Snow Pixie"..... Never heard of such a thing....:laughing-smiley-004
Very descriptive - I can actually picture it.... Little "Forest Fairy" dithering in the cold.....

No offense intended Mr Finman....
Heh heh. We do not have pixies here. It is totally between British ears. Dream freely.
 
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Lol lol.... question was not about your queens. Curly raised 6 queens and sold them. And Curly wanders, why his queens swarmed.

And to 123pixie I say, that I do not justify your queens. Ask a Document from the seller. And you can do it yourself.
.
Morning finman.. I've reared 20 or so queen's this year 75% are from f1 Amm stock 25% from my best Italian mongrels.
None of them have swarmed except the one in question.. Either nucs or parent colonys.
I / we rear queens from mothers in there second year after that we requeen.. So I'm not keeping any breeder queen's if you like that will go into there third season.
If some one can point me in the right direction of pure Amm which would have to be I. I. In this country or NI. I would be very surprised to find one??

@ericbeaumont im very interested to learn about the 57 variables you talk of??

I think with any species, sub species of honey bee you will be hard pushed to breed a bee that would not want to at some point swarm. Imo this is down to the beekeeper and the husbandry they perform on there stock, and not necessarily there genetics.

I've had two swarms only this season and both were down to my lack of husbandry.

Thanks for the replys.. Poor old finman snow pixies were in my dreams last night they must be real. :LOL:
I maybe British but I'm not necessarily English!
 

Ian123 

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And to 123pixie I say, that I do not justify your queens. Ask a Document from the seller. And you can do it yourself.
I don’t need to ask the documents are provided free of charge. That’s why I questioned your comment about home reared queens being whatever............ Curley 1 of the main reasons I use purchased in breeders is the consistency of the offspring. Over the years when rearing from local/mongrel bees it’s very hit and miss and it’s not really until the queens are established in their own colonies they can really be assessed. Horses for courses pay your money and take your choice. As Erica said the boot is a very good selection tool but many get attached and is seldom used!
 

Finman 

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Curlypixie seems to be an experienced mongrel breeder. Why do he then ask, why his F1+n mongrels are so different?
 
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I don’t need to ask the documents are provided free of charge. That’s why I questioned your comment about home reared queens being whatever............ Curley 1 of the main reasons I use purchased in breeders is the consistency of the offspring. Over the years when rearing from local/mongrel bees it’s very hit and miss and it’s not really until the queens are established in their own colonies they can really be assessed. Horses for courses pay your money and take your choice. As Erica said the boot is a very good selection tool but many get attached and is seldom used!
My boot has and will get used.
Saying that I'm very attached to a cast from last year who were in two supers over last winter, and are now in a 14x12 brood box( Italian mongrel queen) this colonys queen genetics are on a 2/3 for aggression. (workers).
Im planning to try Carnica queen's next year at a site 85 miles from my others these are all I.I queen's.
So horses for causes and more:)
 

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My boot has and will get used.
Saying that I'm very attached to a cast from last year who were in two supers over last winter, and are now in a 14x12 brood box( Italian mongrel queen) this colonys queen genetics are on a 2/3 for aggression. (workers).
Im planning to try Carnica queen's next year at a site 85 miles from my others these are all I.I queen's.
So horses for causes and more:)
Are you getting your Carnies from Paul?
 

Ian123 

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My boot has and will get used.
Saying that I'm very attached to a cast from last year who were in two supers over last winter, and are now in a 14x12 brood box( Italian mongrel queen) this colonys queen genetics are on a 2/3 for aggression. (workers).
Im planning to try Carnica queen's next year at a site 85 miles from my others these are all I.I queen's.
So horses for causes and more:)
Don’t worry I was not referring to you but the number of times over the years I’ve seen beeks refuse to squash queens or keep them for safety sake or many other excuses. At the end of the day it’s obviously up to them but they are making life harder for themselves in the long run.
 
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Don’t worry I was not referring to you but the number of times over the years I’ve seen beeks refuse to squash queens or keep them for safety sake or many other excuses. At the end of the day it’s obviously up to them but they are making life harder for themselves in the long run.
Almost the same as leaving a void in the brood box, and then brais comb gets built. :banghead:
 
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Depends how you apply vigour: ideal interpretation is that the queen lays vigorously and the foragers work vigorously. Temper, or defensiveness, is not related to vigour unless you mean it to be so.
I’m worried that might not be correct Eric. Wont a recent hybrid demonstrate all sorts of ‘vigour’ because of its relative genetic health in comparison to an F1 pedigree. But the genetic health represents the diversity of parentage not a trait. So it doesn’t mean that any of the vigorous phenotype qualities (which could be behavioural or related to productivity or most anything else) whether desirable or not, are reflected as a genotype trait. One might be killing perfectly good strains if misinterpreting hybrid vigour for a heritable trait. And I don’t know how we could distinguish if breeding from F1s (or close to).
That’s my understanding anyway
 
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Not really true from a pure race/line f1 tend to be true to the mother even open random mated it’s what most commercial suppliers provide. Unless you are paying a premium.
Yes because of haploid drones and so only for 1 generation. I’m still confused by the very concept of an AMM F1 though.
 

Finman 

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Might be F1 fairy...

I tried bukfast queens. After couple of years I wondered, how fast the genes of bukfast genes vanished from my hives. Lots of supercedure during one year.

It does not last long when your Premium genes have gone.
 
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Ian123 

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Might be F1 fairy...

I tried bukfast queens. After couple of years I wondered, how fast the genes of bukfast genes vanished from my hives. Lots of supercedure during one year.

It does not last long when your Premium genes have gone.
Their genes disappear as fast as any other race/line in my area. As for premium genes they last as long as the purchased in queens and then the daughters. I have a couple of island mated entering 3rd and 4th season, let’s say the F1 daughters in production hives last a couple of years. How long do you want!!!!!
 

Finman 

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Their genes disappear as fast as any other race/line in my area. As for premium genes they last as long as the purchased in queens and then the daughters. I have a couple of island mated entering 3rd and 4th season, let’s say the F1 daughters in production hives last a couple of years. How long do you want!!!!!
Is that a wanting thing!!!!

I use to keep production queens only one year.

What is the idea keep 3-4 years some queens?
 
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Their genes disappear as fast as any other race/line in my area. As for premium genes they last as long as the purchased in queens and then the daughters. I have a couple of island mated entering 3rd and 4th season, let’s say the F1 daughters in production hives last a couple of years. How long do you want!!!!!
To be F1 wouldn’t they need to be artificially inseminated. Else how could you know.
 
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Why it’s no different from any other race of bee
The principal would be the same - but from what I understand of most AMM projects it’s about breeding towards a goal by mixing and harvesting from the gene pool that’s out there to get back towards a natural (as opposed to pure bred) UK native type bee. The philosophy seems to be the opposite of pure breed F1 pedigree type races with their F2/3 potential issues.
 
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Lol yes I get it I was just trying to get the snow pixie to justify his comment, the breeders I use are island or isolated mated.
But these are still not correctly described as F1.

....I think.
 
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