Cupkit & 24 hours - no eggs

[Spikedog]

Queen 24 hours in cup kit and not a single egg. A prolific layer and last year took to Cups like a pro. Seasoned the cage for two days (and brushed cells with syrup) any suggestions as to why failed this occasion - have I missed something?

 

[wightbees]

I have seen some rub wax over each plug , was on YouTube that I saw it.

 

[B+.]

have I missed something?

Is it in the middle of the nest?
I had a cage full of eggs once. as soon as I released the queen, the workers removed them all.
It's so easy to get into trouble with these cages. Give grafting a go. Larvae don't run away and hide from you.

 

[Spikedog]

Ahhhhh "middle of the nest" no! It was closer to back for less disruptive access. Back in tomorrow so. May attempt grafting but eyes are old and ha liability for fine work. Thanks P.

 

[Goran]

I heard complaints of few beeks which use Nicot and simmilar queen hardly or won't lay.. I use jenter and have no such problems. My mentor say that Nicot is bad copy of Jenter. With jenter I wax qcell walls and prepare colony in advance ( the feeding as the bees feel there is strong flow going). I usually place in colony jenter prior to qrearing to bees "scent" it about day or two before.. When I place the queen in " cage", I also release the queen after 24 hours, but I check before to see how she laid the cells.
I learned to work with jenter from my mentor, when I listened how he advocate use of jenter.. I accept it and I am satisfied.
Now I am trying to make time to start with qrearing for this season..

 

[Stiffy]

Is it in the middle of the nest?
I had a cage full of eggs once. as soon as I released the queen, the workers removed them all.
It's so easy to get into trouble with these cages. Give grafting a go. Larvae don't run away and hide from you.

Just had this happen to me, couldn't believe the little monkies did it!
S

 

[Gsyguy]

I've just let a queen out of my Jenter. She's been in there for 72 hours and still not laying in it. I've given up for now and will try to graft tomorrow from a different colony. I am a bit worried about identifying the correct age lava.
Any suggestions?


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[madasafish]

My eyesight is rubbish so use 2.5x magnification.
Look for a small pool of royal jelly. Accent on the small. Just a very little. RJ = larva. Small pool = small larva.

 

[Stiffy]

I've just let a queen out of my Jenter. She's been in there for 72 hours and still not laying in it. I've given up for now and will try to graft tomorrow from a different colony. I am a bit worried about identifying the correct age lava.
Any suggestions?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I am rubbish at grafting but been told you want larvae that are banana shaped.

 

[drex]

I've just let a queen out of my Jenter. She's been in there for 72 hours and still not laying in it. I've given up for now and will try to graft tomorrow from a different colony. I am a bit worried about identifying the correct age lava.
Any suggestions?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I made up a frame trap, based on the design of the one from Thornes. Trapped the queen on that frame for a day. She laid up plenty of eggs of a known age. Saved me hunting round. My first ever attempt at grafting and had a 25% success rate for good queen cells. I was well pleased with that. Second attempt will be in a couple of weeks and hopefully a bit of a better take this time

 

[B+.]

I am a bit worried about identifying the correct age lava.
Any suggestions?

Use this as a visual aid. http://coloss.org/beebook/I/misc-methods/2/5/4
If it helps, print it off and keep it with your grafting kit.

 

[Poly Hive]

You want larvae this size: "c"

Eyes an issue then get to ASDA and explain to the optician exactly what you are up to and they made me specs for £40 that are spot on.

I tried Jenter a few times and the classic was a unit of eggs, every one laid neatly on the NON cup spots. I ended up grafting from a Jenter..... pointless eh?

PH

 

[wightbees]

That's a great guide B+ thanks

 

[B+.]

That's a great guide B+ thanks

yw.

There is lots of very useful information on the coloss website (http://coloss.org/).

 

[wightbees]

Bookmarked, cheers

 

[For want of a better word]

I made up a frame trap, based on the design of the one from Thornes. Trapped the queen on that frame for a day. She laid up plenty of eggs of a known age. Saved me hunting round. My first ever attempt at grafting and had a 25% success rate for good queen cells. I was well pleased with that. Second attempt will be in a couple of weeks and hopefully a bit of a better take this time

Spot on... larvae will be of correct age +/- a few hours.
Then cell punch into a queenless starter for 12 hours and into a cell finisher ( or use a Cloake board)

Just raise lots of nice local bees!!!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

into a queenless starter for 12 hours and into a cell finisher ( or use a Cloake board)

I prefer starter-finisher colonies (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3823).
It seems to me that you provide the best possible conditions for raising a larva for 24 hours, so, why move it a queen-right colony above an excluder with brood either side of it? This can only be for economic reasons (so you can use the same colony to raise the next batch of 1-day old larvae) and will have little to do with producing "quality" queen. In the finisher colony, the larvae will be fed as workers, not as queens - and it is the diet of the queen that makes it different from a worker.
Michael Palmer has a very good photo in his presentation of royal jelly still in the cup after the queen has become a pupa. This is how you know you have a well fed larva. Don't worry, it won't be wasted. The queen will clean out the cell as soon as she emerges. I see this all the time when queens emerge in my incubator.
Of course, this is just my opinion. But, I get nice big healthy queens this way, rather than the under-nourished "runts" that can slip between the bars of excluders.

 

[For want of a better word]

B+ do you use a queenless ( or dequeened) colony throoughout your queen cell raising /
Transferring to the incubator on day 14.
May try this with leaving the board in position, and removing with just the qx in once cell raising has finished.

Going to try the Nicot again!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

B+ do you use a queenless ( or dequeened) colony throoughout your queen cell raising /
Transferring to the incubator on day 14.
May try this with leaving the board in position, and removing with just the qx in once cell raising has finished.

Going to try the Nicot again!

Yes. I create cell raiser colonies using frames of sealed brood and bees from support colonies (similar idea to Michael Palmers method but this suits me better at the moment). These are very strong colonies(http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3823) that cover the combs in seconds (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3824).
The cells are transferred to the incubator as soon as they are sealed (day 8/9) otherwise the cell raiser colony will draw comb between the cells. They are so strong that this needs to be managed carefully (by replacing the sealed cells with fresh larvae and ensuring they always have somewhere to put the stores they are bringing in). Basically, I graft on a Saturday/Sunday and collect the sealed cells on Thursday/Friday. You might say that I am leaving the cell-raiser without cells for too long, and I'd agree. Ideally, I should replace the sealed cells with fresh grafts straight away, but, I can't always manage this. I use the Carricell portable incubator to transfer the sealed cells back to my home incubator (Brinsea Ova-easy cabinet type - http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3727) which could hold hundreds of cells.
The point I was trying to make earlier was that, if you want the very best quality queens, you have to invest in their nutrition. I try to focus on each stage in the process and improve it as much as I can. Sometimes, real life gets in the way and I don't always manage perfection, but, I have to be honest and say I do the best I can.

 

[madasafish]

I used Nicot first time (with a Cloake board) this week.

Put the Nicot in hive 4 days to be warmed up/cleaned etc.Then added queen for 24 hours . (center brood nest between two brood frames.
Result:eggs.
Removed queen by removing Nicot QE and leaving it off. Big mistake.. all eggs removed when I looked in 2 days.
So did same again and released Queen by removing plug.. and inspected yesterday.. Larvae..

Placed in top box of Lang jumbo having (the day before) shut bottom from top box via Cloake board making top box Q-. (LOTS of bees in top box +pollen +sugar solution feeders.)

Inspected this pm after rain.
Result.. looks like 10 out of 10. Edit.. ignore second bar with Nicot cells - just added this pm so only larvae in cells - did a second round from same load of eggs...can be 24 hours between time laid.
Much easier than cell punching in my view.. I use a floor with a switchable entrance at the rear of the floor for the bottom box... so no box lifting /floor moving.. (virtually impossible without two as a jumbo brood box is VERY heavy when full of bees...)