Crownboard

[Howsoonisnow]

Nottingham - to be specific (or maybe pedantic or thick!), is the 'O' shape a circular with a hole in the middel?

Thanks

 

[Howsoonisnow]

Muswell

The bees fan to pass air over the nectar to reduce its moisture content to produce honey.

And hence the thinking of assisting with the removal of moisture but keeping open holes in crwon board.

You can dry clothes with snow on the ground in windy days.

 

[Stiffy]

Interesting topic:
I have recently been considering making crown boards from correx, with no holes as many of my boards get propolised and cause problems when opening hives. Will let you know how they get on
I dont use porter bee escapes anymore but do use a fume board, clears the bees in 5-10 minutes on a warm day.
Cheers
S

 

[nottingham]

Nottingham - to be specific (or maybe pedantic or thick!), is the 'O' shape a circular with a hole in the middel?

Thanks

Yes it is a circle with a hole in the middle.

Not everything new I have tried has worked but I keep a close eye on my bees, I only inspect hive as needed once a week in swarming season but I sit near the hive and watch my bees everyday.

 

[Juststarting]

Great Question Rab.

I always assumed that the holes should be covered up when not using the crown board for feeding or clearing bees.

With a poly hive there is no roof ventilation so no difference whether opened or closed but I prefer bees not to fly up when I remove the roof.

References I can find are :

Keeping bees a complete practical guide - Paul Peacock pg 50 - " Crown board - this is a board that covers the whole of the top of the highest super and it is simply a devise to keep bees at bay when you have removed the lid of the hive. There are usually a couple of holes cut into the boards through which you can feed the bees or place a porter valve...

Some modern Crownboards do not have holes in them and are simply a covering ..."

A practical manual of beekeeping - David Cramp pg 56

"The crown board - Often called "inner cover", esp in America, this is just a board that sits on the top of the top box under the lid. I dont use them and in fact cant think what they are for...

...crown boards often have a round hole in them so you can invert a bucket feeder..."


I suspect part of the lack of clear reference is that crownboards are multi functional and clear guidance is given about not leaving in porter escape but not to then cover them. I felt it was implicit that the hole should then be covered when not being used for feeding or clearing as in my "spare" wooden hive I wouldnt want them in the roof space building wild comb and in my polyhive it stopped them sticking down the roof.

I only use crownboards on the polyhives to prevent them sticking down the roofs and I like to provide top bee space above the frames, which is not present if roof is put straight on to boxes.

Hope you get some better references.

 

[nottingham]

One thing I tried is to put a clear sheet of perspex in a crown board frame and drill 2mm holes in it to stop a build up a moisture. At first I didn't put enough holes in the perspex and had to drill some more.

Using a board I pinned it to a wall at about 45 degrees to make some shade over the perspex crown board but allowing sun light to shine on the sides of the hive.
I tried this to see if I could feed the bees in the dead of night (about 10:30pm in the summer months) without putting any stress on them and it worked. I found that I could put pollen substitute that I melted with water into a frame feeder without any stress to the bees at all. I didn't even have to put my bees suit on as the bees didn't notice that the cover had come off.

I only did this for about 2 weeks to help them put more stores in the brood box, along side using superboosters I had just started to use.

Yet as you can understand I only did this if the temperature was right to do so and it was a carm wind free night.

But once I moved my bees to an out apiary, I couldn't do this any more as the hive is to far away from were I live. I would not be able to get to the hive fast enough, to cover up the holly crown board if it rains.

 

[oliver90owner]

OK, nearing the end of third page and not yet one single reference to leaving a gaping hole in the crownboard in any reference literature yet.

Speaks volumes for those that advocate this as useful and common practice. Either the experts (the authors) are missing an important part of hive keeping or they do not recommend it and simply use their crownboards as... err... crownboards?

Come along! there must be one, surely?

RAB

 

[Howsoonisnow]

Rab

Maybe only you were looking for references?

You could find some for the other side of the discussion if you so wish to balance things...?

References were also discussed earlier. Just because something is in print doesn't make it fact or definitive or can't be challenged.

What were the authors from decades ago working from?

 

[kazmcc]

Sorry, i don't have a reference, but our mentor popped out the bee escapes before winter last year and they went through winter with the holes open. The holes are still open and they are doing what they should I'm told.

 

[oliver90owner]

What were the authors from decades ago working from?

Years upon years of experience.

Come on then, find the references. I can find lots which reinforce the view to not leaving a gaping hole but none for having a compromised crownboard.

 

[Adam]

I have also found that putting sugar syrup on the hive over winter can bring its own problems if the temperature over winter keeps changing. Winter 2009 it snowed 4 times here in Nottingham and I had a feeder over a hole in my crown board. I found that when it snow as you would of expected the temperature went down to -6'c and a week later once the snow had gone it went up to 1'c. This happened 4 times that year and when it came to opening the hive in spring 2010 mold had grown thought out the brood box.

Nottingham,

Are you saying you were feeding syrup right through the winter? If so, fermenting syrup can be one of the causes of dysentry.

Adam

 

[Juststarting]

Rab

Maybe only you were looking for references?

You could find some for the other side of the discussion if you so wish to balance things...?

References were also discussed earlier. Just because something is in print doesn't make it fact or definitive or can't be challenged.

What were the authors from decades ago working from?

I looked in the books(7-8) I've got and only references I could find either way were those I quoted

 

[nottingham]

Nottingham,

Are you saying you were feeding syrup right through the winter? If so, fermenting syrup can be one of the causes of dysentry.

Adam

I know that now but at the time it was a big learning curve.

Duncan

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Whilst I totally agree with Rab about closing the holes, I did find this reference with a quick google. Not "in print" as such, but by someone with years of experience who claims not to have lost a colony since 1988.
The part about leaving holes open is under the heading "swarm control"

http://www.hertsbees.org.uk/bee_tips/20_minute_beekeeper.html

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Also, Dave Cushman (who is also against leaving holes open) mentions this on his website...

"Wedmore wrote a book "the ventilation of beehives". He made many errors in his book simply because he had decided on the answer before doing the experimental work. He proposed the adoption, and deliberate inclusion of top ventilation by matchsticks being placed under crownboards, leaving feed holes open, I am not sure whether he mentioned upper entrances, but they fall into the same category".

 

[Howsoonisnow]

Rab

I was inviting you to find the references; I'm not interested in them but others seem to have found them for you.

Of course they had years of experience! And working from the knowledge of those that went before!

Nottingham - how long was your mesh crown board left on for them to produce the 'polo' effect? I think your mesh is/was an interesting experiment whether intended or accident.

Thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

Howsoonisnow,

I was inviting you to find the references;

I looked and that was the reason for the original post - I didn't find any.

Had you actually read post #1 of the thread, you might not be wasting so much time now. Your contribution to the thread so far is less than enlightening.

As I said I can find lots which do not advocate leaving gaping holes in the crownboard, but none for the opposite and I would be grateful for those references. I will be contacting Andy Wattam for further reference as his name seems to be the only tangible lead yet, as Wedmore seems to have said the opposite in two books. I will also be sourcing that book, even if it was written several decades ago.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Can we ask Rab, is this a purely academic question or do you have some purpose in mind?
(apologies if it's top secret and you'd rather not say).

Andy.

 

[nottingham]

Rab

Nottingham - how long was your mesh crown board left on for them to produce the 'polo' effect? I think your mesh is/was an interesting experiment whether intended or accident.

Thanks

I like the way you put it "polo" effect. it had taken them about a month to polo the open mesh crown board but once it had got to a given size, it didn't seem to get much bigger. I haven't got a photo to show you but I would say it only covered about 40% on the mesh.

It is easy to clean off with a wire brush at the end of the season. I like to clean my hive parts with a mix of white vinegar, lemon juice and tea tree oil in a spray bottle but I wouldn't clean any parts, that are above the brood box with that mix until the season is over.

Duncan

 

[Teemore]

JG Digges' book on Irish beekeeping (circa 1905) and another earlier book I have make no mention of holes in crown boards. Interestingly, they do not really refer to Crown boards at all as hive management at that time involved the use of a hessian quilt to cover the tops of the frames. This would be augmented by a bag of chaff, sawdust, wool or woollen blankets in winter to add a little insultation - note these are all 'breathable' and will allow moisture to wick out. The only reference to holes in these quilts is to facilitate the use of a contact feeder.
From my own experience, I place a piece of slate over the holes in my CBs when they are not in use for feeding etc. and the bees propolise the slate in place. I have also observed a couple of CBs where a piece of floor mesh was used to cover the feed/porter bee escape holes and the colonies propolised the holes in the mesh to seal them up.