Crownboard

[Howsoonisnow]

Thanks Nottingham

Just trying to further my knowledge.

Rab - if you followed arguments through and didn't just get argumentative, things can progress. You end up being rude.

Teemore - the wicking effect of the material would encourage the removal of moisture, as you say, which is one of the ideas of increased ventilation.

Has anyone any thoughts on the 'polo' effect? It is probably the active region along the pollen front that expands and contracts with the colony and it is, in effect, a section through the rugby ball shape of the brood nest.

 

[oliver90owner]

greatbritishhoney,

The thread is just as it says in post #1

I am asking for references showing trials leading to recommendation for leaving open, or making, large holes in the crownboard.

I could not find any and as there are such a multitude who swear by the practice, I was hoping those would have the information. So far that appears not to be the case.

I await further solid references if the practice is more than a self perpetuating myth.

Regards, RAB

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Fair enough Rab. I was only asking as it seemed that buying the Wedmore book and contacting Andy Wattam indicated some larger purpose.

 

[Finman]

So as far as I see it, there is never an need to have a crown board with holes in it.

I have needed many times and so I have a hole in every inner cover.

How much have those missed in their life if they do not have a hole in crown board!

(stupid debat)

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

Successful Bee-Keeping by E.B. WEDMORE.
Chapter 135.

The practice is increasing, however, of using free top ventilation as provided by the roof shown in Fig. 9 ( Fig 9 shows a vented roof ) with the crown board with feed hole open all through the year and with bottom entrance reduced to say 5 inches by ¼ inches in cold weather.
The through draft due to the warmth of the cluster is not found excessive and secures that sufficient air passes through to carry off moisture.
It is often not appreciated that large quantities even of dry air can carry only small quantities of water vapour, whereas in the dangerous spring season the air entering the hive is generally already charged with moisture and can carry away more only if its temperature is raised and escapes in this condition.
Where such a hive is in an exposed position it is well to close the ventilation hole in the back of the roof, as air pressure on the bottom entrance is then offset by air pressure on the front vent.
It is important to have ventilation holes in the roof whatever may be used below.

Brian

 

[Rosti]

You are right Brian, it's there (and Wedmore is a great book -that RAB first put me on to as it happens). But it was written during the solid floor era and so the emphasis on top ventilation pre-dates a mesh floor.

I have found a way around this debate. I have decided I no longer use a crown board of any description. I now use a capping board and I have decided that a capping board will be specified as having no holes. Not to be confused with a feeding board, which I believe is sometimes confused with what the victorians called a crown board

 

[Foxylad]

I agree with rosti, my crown boards do not have holes in either. I use miller feeders in autumn feeding, i have no use for holes in my roofs.

 

[Poly Hive]

My very first CB from a Tho**** agent had a hole in it as it was obviously designed to double as a clearer board.

Very early on I discovered that the so called Porter Bee Escapes do not really do what they are called and so found I had no need for the holes.

All my crown boards are solid, as all my floors are mesh.

I have used top insulation since the first lectures I attended at Craibstone where the practice had been researched and publicised by the NOSCA Bee Advisors.

PH

 

[MuswellMetro]

well, my BKA is affiliated to Hertfordshire BKA and on all the apairy visit in /hertfordshire I have never seen a porter escape hole open , so very few hertfordshire members follow their regional bee inspectors advice ( rather glum chappie)

as far as i am concerned crown boards with porter escapes are for clearing and i call them clearer boards not crown boards

my feed boards have a single circular hole in them and my crown boards are single sided without any holes

in very hot weather i put the insulation back on the hives as the metal roofs get hot enough to fry an egg on but only rely on OMF ventalation without the varroa board in

i have seen one beekeeper who used mesh on a porter escape but the bees mainly proplised it closed, but he was on OMF with varroa board in (seems quite common in some areas to leave the varroa board in,but to me that defeats the objective of OMF floors

i will ask what rothampsted do at their open day

 

[onriver]

I've checked through some of my books and have ROB Manley - Beekeeping in Britain, 1948, who talks at length about the problems with various hive types but fails to mention crown boards, ventilated or otherwise; Bees at the bottom of the Garden - Campion, who specifically states that "the crownboard must have some holes in it to permit ventilation of the hive..." Tim Rowe in his Rose Hive Method who says "never be tempted to make any sort of ventilation holes in the crownboard..." and expands on humidity, ventilation and the need for removing moisture in the air without creating a chimney in the hive.
Maybe the concern o90o raises is down to the popularity of Alan Campion, who a lot of new beekeepers start with?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I've got a bit of a chalkbrood problem in one of my hives. I believe increased ventilation is meant to be effective in helping reduce the problem. In this case would it be sensible to leave the crownboard holes uncovered?

 

[Poly Hive]

I will take this seriously though I have my suspicions.

No.

Always have a solid CB.

For chalkbrood requeen. There is no other cure I am aware of.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

No. Requeening from a different stock is the recommended route for 'curing' chalkbrood.

As an addition, I did not receive a response from Any Wattam (other than asking my name [and I responded]), so presumably he was either rmisquoted (he did not say that) or he was making comments with no foundation of proof.

RAB

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I will take this seriously though I have my suspicions.

No.

Always have a solid CB.

For chalkbrood requeen. There is no other cure I am aware of.

PH

Thanks PH. Yes it's a serious question - not sure why you would think otherwise?
The reason I asked is that a few sources (including BBKA website) suggest increasing ventilation to reduce chalkbrood. Opening the holes in the crownboard just seemed a quick and easy way to do this.
I intend to requeen asap.

Cheers
Andy

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

RAB
sorry to again give a reference to not having a hole .
Practical Beekeeping by Clive De bruyn - page 95 differentiates between a crown board and a clearer board. Page 189 does refer to using a hole in the board for ventilation, but goes on to question why - at least he offers an argument!
As a new beek I didn't see the sense in using a clearer board as a crown board so I've made three for my hive - blank board for crown board, one for porter escapes and one with a hole for a feeder!!

 

[Tom Bick]

No real need for three different crown-top-clearer boards, just a piece of ply or similar is all you need to cover the holes.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I know Tom
But being in general a haphazard disorganised b%**er and having (for a while) a free supply of robust plywood have gone for trying a bit of pride and fastidiousness with my kit (probably won't last!!)
But the point i was trying to make was that from the start, as someone with very little knowledge I couldn't see the point in having a hole in my crownboard.