Critical part of the AS procedure. Discuss

[oliver90owner]

mbc,

You really do need to learn to read the posts. The subject in question was splits not A/Sed part of the colony (as in, quote:each of the boxes of the split) so your silly comment was totally inappropriate. Pointless ignorance, not even bothering to read the text is so common. Think - no queen, just a queen cell, NO POINT.

 

[REDWOOD]

A "sealed" queen cell with a worker in it has successfully emerged, and the trapdoor put back by the bees, one of their little tricks BTW. Why they seal in the robbing worker seems to be unknown.

PH

They probably think it's a queen and protecting her from other queens

 

[oliver90owner]

And you may loose the brood when no bees are taking care about them and keeping warm.
really bad!

That is a last resort and certainly in the weather we are getting at the moment. Let's face it mostly swarms are warm weather events. This year is particularly out of the normal range.

AND if the poster actually shook all the frames, there is the risk he has no viable queen cell left.

 

[Davidwd]

And you may loose the brood when no bees are taking care about them and keeping warm.
really bad!

That is a last resort and certainly in the weather we are getting at the moment. Let's face it mostly swarms are warm weather events. This year is particularly out of the normal range.

AND if the poster actually shook all the frames, there is the risk he has no viable queen cell left.

After I shook all the frames clear, I checked for queen cells left just 1 that had jelly in it. The cell looked ok and the frames were soon covered in bees again, but now I am worried I may have chilled the brood.

I thought it was the right thing to do as swarm cells present.

 

[mbc]

mbc,

You really do need to learn to read the posts. The subject in question was splits not A/Sed part of the colony (as in, quote:each of the boxes of the split) so your silly comment was totally inappropriate. Pointless ignorance, not even bothering to read the text is so common. Think - no queen, just a queen cell, NO POINT.

defensive drivel, lets stick to the beekeeping manipulations and bee behaviour ey RAB

 

[Cazza]

now I am worried I may have chilled the brood.

I thought it was the right thing to do as swarm cells present.

No point worrying now, it is done.
The sealed brood is actually quite hardy. I have left a frame out overnight by mistake before now and the brood has not perished. Eggs and larvae are another story.
Cazza

 

[Hivemaker.]

After I shook all the frames clear, I checked for queen cells left just 1 that had jelly in it. The cell looked ok and the frames were soon covered in bees again, but now I am worried I may have chilled the brood.

I thought it was the right thing to do as swarm cells present.

Not a good idea to have shaken the frame with the cell,but if the larvae still looked okay and the frame was soon covered in bees, then it will most likely be fine,larvae can stay alive for quite a while without being covered by bees,but obviously not in a force ten gale in really freezing weather for hours.

 

[oliver90owner]

No, you read the posts and stop making stupid attacks EY?

 

[rae]

Original queen goes into empty box on the original site.

Queen cells in the box are distributed as follows:

1) One and only one into the AS, one for each split if we are doing splits. If one turns out to be a dud, merge the splits. We choose the biggest and best sealed queen cell. Don't get the desire to leave them with unsealed cell - that simply means longer to wait.

2) Some are cut out and given to queenless hives.

3) The rest are destroyed.

We did the "multiple QCs per split" last year and got zillions of casts, and laying queens a long while later. This year, we already have splits with fertilsed and laying queens, god knows how, the weather has been awful

 

[Finman]

.
One critical part in AS

is to join hive parts again.[/B] A hive needs a balance with foraging bees and home bees.

Brood part is not capable to for 3 weeks. Then it is broodless and a new queen start to lay. Hives efforst go to feed the brood. They eate all.

Swarm part. First it forage surplus, but then its work goes to rear brood.

After 3 weeks the hive has only half of bees. It takes 4 weeks that bee number is same as in beginning.

It takes about one week when swarming fever is over. If there aré no flow, and you join hive parts, it may start again. But when you have a new laying queen, it is not eager to swarm again.

 

[drstitson]

"I thought it was the right thing to do as swarm cells present."

perfectly fine to shake the frames with cells that you are going to destroy. BUT the cell you are planning to keep shouldn't be.

 

[oliver90owner]

One critical part in AS

is to join hive parts again.

That is OK as long as the new queen is a good one, and it takes time to ascertain her real traits and the old queen may soon be past her best and be superceded anyway (another wait for brood if she actually fails very quickly). Also with a lot of imported queens those next generations can be like bees from hell.

Also depends on whether one wants increase or not.

Lots of 'ifs' and it is all a compromise. Doing an A/S leaving only one cell could easily prove to be a disater for a one colony beek. For those with only several (ie not THAT many) the 'problems' are much less important. They will likely be selecting, to raise new queens from selected old queens with chosen traits, so all the above is dependent on who is doing the deed. Horses for courses and all that.

Follow the Padgen method closely is my advice to the inexperienced. If they make a 'mish-mash' of it later, that is their fault.

 

[Davidwd]

"I thought it was the right thing to do as swarm cells present."

perfectly fine to shake the frames with cells that you are going to destroy. BUT the cell you are planning to keep shouldn't be.

It seems as if i have made some mistakes, i just hope they can get over it. Some warm weather may help now.
D

 

[For want of a better word]

Also with a lot of imported queens those next generations can be like bees from hell.


Tractor Man is way out of order here... but totally correct !

Poppycock maybe but putting a frame of brood back to the now broodless proportion of the divided colony seems to have some effect on the queenessency of the division, that may be queenminus.

RAB I am not attacking your obvious wealth of beekeepering knowledge, merely expressing an alternative scenario...... after all as a Navy surgeon friend said to me, "we still amputate limbs, but no longer dip the stump in molten tar as they did in Nelson's day... we do have to move on from these Victorian ideas... even if they ( Victorians) had a good reason ( then) for carrying out such atrocities"!

 

[fiftyjon]

In my limited experience leaving more than one queencell, sealed or otherwise is asking for trouble.
Older experienced beekeepers (in my experience) and books have generally stated leave two for insurance, when we are manipulating our bees surely we should think about what we are doing and what the bees are likely to do as a result of our actions.
When bees first construct queencells I would have thought it was unlikely they would construct defective ones. If all sealed queencells are destroyed by the beekeeper when seen to allow the bees to construct new ones surely then the possibility of an older larva is used therefore a stronger possibility of a sub-par queen being produced.

An unsealed queencell allows the confirmation that a larva exists in a sea of royal jelly, the frame can be marked. Any further cells produced within the hive need to be destroyed before the queen emerges from the cell otherwise your queen from your nicely selected cell flies out the hive leaving you with something else.

Just IMHO.

 

[Davidwd]

In my limited experience leaving more than one queencell, sealed or otherwise is asking for trouble.
Older experienced beekeepers (in my experience) and books have generally stated leave two for insurance, when we are manipulating our bees surely we should think about what we are doing and what the bees are likely to do as a result of our actions.
When bees first construct queencells I would have thought it was unlikely they would construct defective ones. If all sealed queencells are destroyed by the beekeeper when seen to allow the bees to construct new ones surely then the possibility of an older larva is used therefore a stronger possibility of a sub-par queen being produced.

An unsealed queencell allows the confirmation that a larva exists in a sea of royal jelly, the frame can be marked. Any further cells produced within the hive need to be destroyed before the queen emerges from the cell otherwise your queen from your nicely selected cell flies out the hive leaving you with something else.

Just IMHO.

After performing the A/S and leaving 1unsealed cell with royal jelly, how long would you leave it before performing another inspection and destroying any new QC's that have been made?

I suppose before destroying the new QC's i should check the original 1 is ok first?

 

[tonybloke]

5 days, mate.
and yes, make sure the original one is still in good condition!

 

[Davidwd]

5 days, mate.
and yes, make sure the original one is still in good condition!

Thanks tony,

 

[fiftyjon]

5 days, mate.
and yes, make sure the original one is still in good condition!

 

[For want of a better word]

5 days, mate.
and yes, make sure the original one is still in good condition!

Other fat and juicy ones can be gently plucked and incubated as insurance and increase!
5 hatched this morning... waiting for stocked apidea to arrive from M8 up country at this very minute