Couldn't believe my eyes

[Sammo]

Went to check on my hives earlier this afternoon in case of any storm damage. As I walked towards my hives I could see something dense on a nearby apple tree. At first I thought it was some dead plant material or something like that. I had to take a second look and to my surprise there was a small swarm clustered on a branch. It must have been there before the swarm! I wasn't expecting that at all and wasn't prepared! So off home to get a nuc box.

When I returned, I got them all in the box. There was virtually no movement at all. I presume they were cold and hungry. There were also a handful of dying bees on the ground.

If I keep them in a warm area and feed them will they liven up and will it then be ok to move the nuc box outside or is there no hope? I'll like to do what I can to help them but I understand that it may be futile given how late it is in the year.

 

[REDWOOD]

The size of cluster is an important factor to get them through the winter, also a mated queen, keep them warm and feed them you never know, some will say they are doomed.
You could use a hive heater if the queen starts to lay

 

[user 6228]

Went to check on my hives earlier this afternoon in case of any storm damage. As I walked towards my hives I could see something dense on a nearby apple tree. At first I thought it was some dead plant material or something like that. I had to take a second look and to my surprise there was a small swarm clustered on a branch. It must have been there before the swarm! I wasn't expecting that at all and wasn't prepared! So off home to get a nuc box.

When I returned, I got them all in the box. There was virtually no movement at all. I presume they were cold and hungry. There were also a handful of dying bees on the ground.

If I keep them in a warm area and feed them will they liven up and will it then be ok to move the nuc box outside or is there no hope? I'll like to do what I can to help them but I understand that it may be futile given how late it is in the year.

make a cover from 50mm kingspan for the nuc so that there is a small gap for the bees get in and out
like this

 

[sharonh]

Went to check on my hives earlier this afternoon in case of any storm damage. As I walked towards my hives I could see something dense on a nearby apple tree. At first I thought it was some dead plant material or something like that. I had to take a second look and to my surprise there was a small swarm clustered on a branch. It must have been there before the swarm! I wasn't expecting that at all and wasn't prepared! So off home to get a nuc box.

When I returned, I got them all in the box. There was virtually no movement at all. I presume they were cold and hungry. There were also a handful of dying bees on the ground.

If I keep them in a warm area and feed them will they liven up and will it then be ok to move the nuc box outside or is there no hope? I'll like to do what I can to help them but I understand that it may be futile given how late it is in the year.

Was it from one of your own hives.
If so, is there a queen ? or is she with these bees.
I would fed them, but I would be concerned for their survival. No stores, no broad.
Have you put drawn comb in the nuc ?
If you have some frames with honey, I would give it.
I know some other beekeepers have had late swarms, so they might be able to give advice.
You would need to give more information, like what size, was it from your own hive and has it a queen? and does your hive have a queen?
It would be lovely to help them, but if from somewhere else, you have to consider they might have disease, so give as much information as possible, someone might be able to help.
Sharon

 

[beeno]

Hi Sammo,
As a word of encouragement, one of my hives still has drones flying! Give them a chance!

 

[For want of a better word]

Pop the little cluster of bees in a nice warm brood box with drawn comb and some store... on top of an existing colony... with a Snellgrove board between and feed.
Best to insulate hives well if you are not using polly hives
open the top entrance for swarm to get in and out.
Then you have an option to merge at a later date... Spring ? or have two colonies.

 

[peteinwilts]

Hi Sammo,
As a word of encouragement, one of my hives still has drones flying! Give them a chance!

but I don't fancy any chances of queens mating with the current outlook, but regardless there will be little brooding until spring. (fingers crossed for a warm few days in February!)

Try and give them drawn comb or comb already filled with stores, but do not sacrifice others too hard.

Rapid feed Thymolised syrup.

Some of my hives are still taking a litre or so a day, although most have slowed down now they are reaching capacity.

One hive that was totally disinterested in feeding a couple of weeks ago turned on last week and is now taking 6 litres every three days.

I have caught a couple of swarms in October (possibly the punishment of people feeding too much, too early!?!), but not caught one quite this late. Both of my October caught swarms survived the winter...

Don't let the calendar stop you... only the weather. Last year, my slowest feeding hives took syrup until 18th November.

 

[Sammo]

Was it from one of your own hives.
If so, is there a queen ? or is she with these bees.
I would fed them, but I would be concerned for their survival. No stores, no broad.
Have you put drawn comb in the nuc ?
If you have some frames with honey, I would give it.
I know some other beekeepers have had late swarms, so they might be able to give advice.
You would need to give more information, like what size, was it from your own hive and has it a queen? and does your hive have a queen?
It would be lovely to help them, but if from somewhere else, you have to consider they might have disease, so give as much information as possible, someone might be able to help.
Sharon

Hi Sharon,
I think they must be from my hives, but I don't understand why that could have happened as I think I've done a thorough job up to now. I couldn't inspect my hives as the weather was pretty bad and it was pouring down so one of my hives could well be Queenless.

The swarm does have a queen. She is not the queen from the old hive. I saw her when I shook them in. I also gave them two frames of stores and two drawn frames to help them out. The forecast for the next few days is not too bad, so if they pull through, there's a chance that she could get mated. I hope.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Hi Sharon,
I think they must be from my hives, but I don't understand why that could have happened as I think I've done a thorough job up to now. I couldn't inspect my hives as the weather was pretty bad and it was pouring down so one of my hives could well be Queenless.

The swarm does have a queen. She is not the queen from the old hive. I saw her when I shook them in. I also gave them two frames of stores and two drawn frames to help them out. The forecast for the next few days is not too bad, so if they pull through, there's a chance that she could get mated. I hope.

So you are sure the swarm is a cast, and that the swarmed Q is a virgin? That makes an easy decision what to do, surely? If a mated Q had flown, that would raise the question of whcih colony potentially had a virgin Q, no?

 

[sharonh]

Hi Sharon,
I think they must be from my hives, but I don't understand why that could have happened as I think I've done a thorough job up to now. I couldn't inspect my hives as the weather was pretty bad and it was pouring down so one of my hives could well be Queenless.

The swarm does have a queen. She is not the queen from the old hive. I saw her when I shook them in. I also gave them two frames of stores and two drawn frames to help them out. The forecast for the next few days is not too bad, so if they pull through, there's a chance that she could get mated. I hope.

Hi Sammo,
You did great, you gave them what they need.
Did you put them in a poly nuc or wood nuc.
Poly would be better.
I would insulate the nuc to keep them warm. Keep entrance down to one bee space, as wasps can take over a weak nuc.
Warm syrup might give them a kick start.
I hope they make it through for you.
You acted quick, so that could make all the difference to their survival... fair play to you, we'll done.
let us know how they get on after they have settled in to their new home.
Regards
Sharon

 

[Sammo]

So you are sure the swarm is a cast, and that the swarmed Q is a virgin? That makes an easy decision what to do, surely? If a mated Q had flown, that would raise the question of whcih colony potentially had a virgin Q, no?

The Queen was clipped, so I would assume that she would have died attempting to swarm. Could I also assume that the original hive is now left with a virgin Queen as well?

 

[Sammo]

Hi Sammo,
You did great, you gave them what they need.
Did you put them in a poly nuc or wood nuc.
Poly would be better.
I would insulate the nuc to keep them warm. Keep entrance down to one bee space, as wasps can take over a weak nuc.
Warm syrup might give them a kick start.
I hope they make it through for you.
You acted quick, so that could make all the difference to their survival... fair play to you, we'll done.
let us know how they get on after they have settled in to their new home.
Regards
Sharon

Thanks Sharon for the encouragement. I only have wooden nucs and will insulate them when I put them back outside tomorrow. I can hear them buzzing about in the nuc now which is a encouraging sign.

 

[itma]

The Queen was clipped, so I would assume that she would have died attempting to swarm. Could I also assume that the original hive is now left with a virgin Queen as well?

Yes, and likely a few QCs ready to give you some more casts!
I'd clear all the QCs (or just spring them, but quickly whichever way) and give them a (second) chance of a successful mating. 2Q on the razzle means twice the chance of a successful mating - but it is twice a very small chance...
Parent hive's (massively?) depleted bees might also be better now in an insulated nuc.

I suspect that the best route might be to de-queen both small colonies and unite them into other hives.
Whether you can afford to wait a few weeks before doing that (if mating fails) probably depends on the weather.

 

[sharonh]

Thanks Sharon for the encouragement. I only have wooden nucs and will insulate them when I put them back outside tomorrow. I can hear them buzzing about in the nuc now which is a encouraging sign.

That's fantastic Sammo,
Well done you.
Keep up the good work, they deserve a chance.
At least you found them and didn't just leave them there. Love a happy ending
Sharon

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

The Queen was clipped, so I would assume that she would have died attempting to swarm. Could I also assume that the original hive is now left with a virgin Queen as well?

I'm now confused and a newbie so I'll shut up BUT this is the time of the year to combine weak colonies, and I would personally not want any colony headed by a virgin at this time of the year.

<ADD>Just saw itma chime in: he knows what he is talking about, and it makes sense to me </ADD>