Converter Hive

[rdixon520]

Is there such thing as being able to convert a Langstroth, Dadant and British National Hive.

If not, why not? What problems would arise?

 

[pargyle]

Is there such thing as being able to convert a Langstroth, Dadant and British National Hive.

If not, why not? What problems would arise?

Google Dave Cushman ... there are all the hive sizes/dimensions on there - you will be able to see why conversions are not that easy ... and that's before you get to the (literally) dozens of different Langstroth dimensions.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Is there such thing as being able to convert a Langstroth, Dadant and British National Hive.

If not, why not? What problems would arise?

Convert them into what, a compost bin, shopping trolly, go kart...something else?

 

[enrico]

Or into Catholics maybe!

 

[Nige.Coll]

i converted an old smith hive into a nice bonfire .

 

[itma]

There are some standard "adaptors".

The 14x12 'jumbo' variant of the national differs from the 'deep' only in its vertical dimension, so a vertical spacer ("eke" - in beekeeper speak) achieves the conversion.

The 'Commercial' hive shares the same footprint as the National, and a "Hamilton Converter" (a different eke) turns a National Deep into a (10 not 11 frame) Commercial.

Both those, for full-sized hives, I've only seen in wood. They sell for under a tenner, new, flatpack, in prime cedar.
Paynes offer a poly 14x12 eke for their poly National nuc.

Park sell a poly nuc that can take (with appropriate eke and insert) your choice of National Deep, 14x12 or Langstroth medium.

I discovered just a day or so ago that Abelo sell a poly Langstroth nuc with an adaptor block screwed in place so that it can be sold as a Commercial nuc.

Some individuals have made DIY conversions of poly Langstroth nucs to take National family frames, but the Park is the only such professional product that I'm aware of.



Generally such things are (Paynes 14x12 nuc, and the Abelo thing apart) only used to transition a beekeeper (or bees) from one set of hive dimensions to another.
It happens about as frequently as people change from Mac to PC or vice versa.


Different hives with frames are variations on a theme.
But each theme has precise measurements.
The bees are very intolerant of imprecision on a millimetre scale.
And they don't like moving parts - they glue them together.
The concept of "beespace" is what permits framed hives to exist as a practical entity. As a product designer, you need to understand it, and respect it.
One manufacturer initially produced some poly "Nationals" with incorrect beespaces. They were of course pretty useless ...

You might also care to look up the stories of Paynes National feeder to discover that bees (and thus beekeepers) can be pretty unconvinced by 'clever' design ideas.

 

[oliver90owner]

If you are looking to convert one hive type into another, why not just get the right one in the first place?

 

[REDWOOD]

There is a guy on TV that might be able to help you, his name is Dynamo I think

 

[oliver90owner]

I don't have a TV.

 

[REDWOOD]

I don't have a TV.

Here we are Rab just for you
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDxcf-4n0ug"]dynamo magician impossible s01e02 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[pargyle]

If you are looking to convert one hive type into another, why not just get the right one in the first place?

OP is a designer ... he's looking to reinvent the National in plastic ... I suspect this was about maximising the potential of a basic national box with some 'converters'.

 

[Nige.Coll]

the best plastic beehive would be made of LEGO.
options are limitless as long as you have enough bricks.





added
i bet if you wrote to them they would give you the bricks for free as long as they could use it for advertising

 

[ugcheleuce]

Is there such thing as being able to convert a Langstroth, Dadant and British National Hive. If not, why not? What problems would arise?

If your target market is the beekeeper that uses fairly modern equipment but needs to move from the one format to the other regularly, then you can concentrate on only frame sizes.

However, if you want to help beekeepers who have been using a variety of hive sizes for many years, you may find that some of them use non-standard widths (i.e. they might use a 7-frame, 8-frame or 9-frame hive when the shop-bought standard is 10-frame or 11-frame). The other dimensions of their hives will be standard, but the hive widths will be customised. So you must decide if you want to include those people in your target market, because if you do, then you to design your system to cope also with variable hive widths. And you also get 3-frame, 4-frame and 5-frame variants, etc.

But let's suppose you are targeting beekeepers who bought their hives in a beekeeping store that sells "standard" hives, or who make their hives to the exact specifications of "official" hive plans.

Then the next thing to understand is that the names "Dadant" and "Langstroth" are fairly generic, and a store in e.g. California that sells "Langstroth" hives may sell hives that are a different size than a store in Washington that sells "Langstroth" hives. And don't forget that different countries also all have their own "Langstroth" hives of various sizes.

But, if you want to make it easy on yourself, find out which stores or manufacturers are the biggest sellers in e.g. the UK or US, and download their catalogues from their web sites, and check out what their frame and box sizes are.

By and large, a thing called a Dadant and a thing called a Langstroth used in the UK have the same frame length, but different frame heights.

By now you can understand why manufacturers who try to enter the beekeeping market with "plastic" systems prefer to simply force their customers to use their particular sizes by providing plastic frames that fit into their plastic hives. The assumption of these manufacturers is that a commercial beekeeper will adopt their system and then throw out all their old equipment and get all the new equipment. Hmmm....

Good luck with your project... you've stuck out on these forums longer than most design students.

Added: Oh, and note that the National frames have longer lugs... and if you're going to design something that will increase a box's height, have a look at the concept of top bee-space and bottom bee-space, because different hives use different one, and that becomes important when you put one type of box on top of another.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

I have a load of MBS Langstoth nucleus hives (medium, standard deep and jumbo) and have wooden inserts to convert the satndard deep into BS deep and a jumbo into 14 x 12s. It gives me that flexibility to supply bees on the format people want and to not run out of kit. I can also run the nucs a 2x 3 frames for mating also.The inserts re simple wood inserts but making in plastic would be very difficult and need changing for different manufacturers (mine are made to fir MBS poly Langstroths). Other converters are the Hamilton and 14 x 13 Eke previously discussed.

 

[drstitson]

really easy to go from national to LS (or it is the other way around).

just need to make an eke and sit the national frames across the box (warm way!)
- you fit 12-13 in a box.

really easy with abelo polys as i've posted before - just takes 6 lengths of strip wood, glue, nails and paint. couple of quid a go.