combining hives

[Apiglen]

I have two weak hives, one which swarmed in mid July and a caste I collected in late June,and would like to combine them ready for the winter. The stronger of the two is the one that swarmed and I know this one should be at the bottom and I should put the weaker hive on top' but this hive has always been quite cranky and vicious. I had hoped that after the swarm left their temperament might have improved, but it hasn't. So I hope to remove the queen, if I can find her, in this hive and combine with the caste but which hive goes on top in this situation?t and at which location?
I plan to do the newspaper method for combining.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I have two weak hives, one which swarmed in mid July and a caste I collected in late June,and would like to combine them ready for the winter. The stronger of the two is the one that swarmed and I know this one should be at the bottom and I should put the weaker hive on top' but this hive has always been quite cranky and vicious. I had hoped that after the swarm left their temperament might have improved, but it hasn't. So I hope to remove the queen, if I can find her, in this hive and combine with the caste but which hive goes on top in this situation?t and at which location?
I plan to do the newspaper method for combining.

dosen't really matter in my experience, if you can find the queen,


but i use the newest comb on the bottom hive on its own stand, if the queen i am keeping is on top, .Then after i have combined i transfer her down, then place QE above her, removong all top box at three weeks +2 days

 

[Erichalfbee]

I see you have 4 hives.
It's better to combine a week hive with a strong one then you get a stronger hive.
Combine two weak ones and you still have a weak hive.

 

[Excession]

Could you elaborate on that Erica?

At the moment it reads like 2+2=4 whereas 1+1=1...

Not quite sure of what you are trying to say. Surely combining two weak colonies always ends up in a stronger colony?

 

[oliver90owner]

I would not be combining now unless for very good reason.

As Erichalfbee, thought needs to go into which colonies to unite with which. Slow build-up since June and July indicates to me a problem somewhere. Either health, queen genes or your hive management are the culprits and you need to investigate to ascertain which one.

Questions I might ask are:

Are they nosemic?
Do they have an unacceptable varroa loading?
Are there any other signs of disease?

Any history of the gene lines?

Were these very small colonies in inappropriately sized boxes?
Have they been subject to through-draughts?
Have they been kept warm enough?
Why have they not been reinforced with emerging brood before now?
Are they competing for limited forage?
Were they fed sugar syrup so much as to be a detriment to colony expansion?

The reason will likely be evident on investigation and have been a simple fix much earlier.

I don't normally unite this early as, given a fighting chance, two queens laying is better than one (unless they are very weak). Also, addressing the problem for poor development now could make all the difference needed to get them strong enough for the winter - even if one is taken through as a nuc.

RAB

 

[Erichalfbee]

RAB said it all.
I have two hives from an AS split earlier.
I'll think of uniting some time after treatment. Have to find that queen first!

 

[Excession]

Just trying to get an understanding though, as the OP explains why they are weak.

RAB explains why not to unite at all now, I am curious as to why you would only unite strong colonies with strong.

I was on the understanding (of course taking RABS points into consideration) that uniting is an accepted method for strengthening weak hives...

 

[oliver90owner]

I am curious as to why you would only unite strong colonies with strong.

Who said that?

 

[pargyle]

I am curious as to why you would only unite strong colonies with strong.

Who said that?

Nobody as far as I can see !!! I thought combining colonies was to strengthen them or use a weakened colony to bolster another colony - I can't see a lot of point in combining two strong colonies - assuming, of course, that you are not looking to create a GIANT hive ....

 

[Apiglen]

Thanks muswellmetro, you added the info I was not considering , the state of the comb, sometimes it just take a fresh pair of eyes to help you see the light. I will unite old on top of new, when I can find the queen in the cranky hive. The beekeeper all my bees came from has similar problems with a few cranky hives amongst her many, so I guess this queen was from that strain.