Combining a Hive with a Small Nuc

[Swift Nick]

I am going to take the queen out of a strong, very defensive colony, that follow, (they have been doing this since the first inspection this year), then combine over newspaper with a three frame nuc, that has a good queen that comes from a hive of calm bees.
Bearing in mind the soon to be Q- colony is much bigger than the nuc, is it best to remove the queen from this colony, wait for then to become hopelessly Q- then do the combination? Or can I do it all in one visit?
I don’t want to risk the queen in the nuc, so prefer the safest option.

 

[Ian123]

You could do a simple paper unite as you say but I have found on occasion a large aggressive colony overwhelmed a nuc. You could if you wish do an A.S on the large hive removing the queen and older flying bees leaving for the next day and then do a paper unite with the q-less section and younger bees. You then have the old girl as a reserve for any f ups and can unite them in a couple of weeks if you wish. Depends if you have time or the kit...

 

[Swift Nick]

You could do a simple paper unite as you say but I have found on occasion a large aggressive colony overwhelmed a nuc. You could if you wish do an A.S on the large hive removing the queen and older flying bees leaving for the next day and then do a paper unite with the q-less section and younger bees. You then have the old girl as a reserve for any f ups and can unite them in a couple of weeks if you wish. Depends if you have time or the kit...

Thanks Ian, in the end I combined over paper with a much larger nuc, over the supers as well, this has worked well in the past for me.
The bees in the hive of which I killed the queen, were straight up in my face, pinging the veil and following, so a job well done I think.
All the other colonies I have are really calm, so hopefully the new queen, will in time, settle them down and produce calmer bees.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

Nick

im in a similar position with a colony which is a bit feisty but quite large and queen is laying fast but i dont like temperament...and want to combine with smaller q right nuc

 

[Swift Nick]

Nick

im in a similar position with a colony which is a bit feisty but quite large and queen is laying fast but i dont like temperament...and want to combine with smaller q right nuc

Last year I had one colony that would seek you out 30 to 40 feet away, I had to replace them, the rest were just fine. So this year I won’t tolerate it, again it’s just one colony, the source of the queen is the same as last years ploblematic one. I am now going to rear my own mongrel queens from my better behaving and performing queens.

 

[mintmoth]

Thanks Ian, in the end I combined over paper with a much larger nuc, over the supers as well, this has worked well in the past for me.
The bees in the hive of which I killed the queen, were straight up in my face, pinging the veil and following, so a job well done I think.
All the other colonies I have are really calm, so hopefully the new queen, will in time, settle them down and produce calmer bees.

Do you mean you put the Q+ box above the supers on top of the Q- colony? I have a nuc and a hive I want to combine and was wondering what to do with the 2 supers on the hive, whether I can leave them on between the two or need to remove them, or put them above the combined colonies.

 

[Swift Nick]

Do you mean you put the Q+ box above the supers on top of the Q- colony? I have a nuc and a hive I want to combine and was wondering what to do with the 2 supers on the hive, whether I can leave them on between the two or need to remove them, or put them above the combined colonies.

Yes, one of the experienced beeks recommended it a few weeks back (have a look at my previous posts- there aren’t many). It did surprise me, it worked OK. The only difference was the bottom box last time was hopelessly Q-, this one isn’t. I shall check for the queen at the weekend , if all OK, check for Q cells, and then decide if to consolidate or double BB.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you mean you put the Q+ box above the supers on top of the Q- colony? I have a nuc and a hive I want to combine and was wondering what to do with the 2 supers on the hive, whether I can leave them on between the two or need to remove them, or put them above the combined colonies.

It's the way I always do it - the colony which needs to change position (whether it is Q+ orQ-) goes right on top of the receiving colony, supers and all, once the unite is complete, I consolidate all the brood frames into one box.
It's usually the smaller Q+ (nuc) colony that goes on top so it's nice and easy, but I have done it with the queenless colony on top before now.

 

[Ian123]

I would leave well alone for a good six days before going back in.

 

[mintmoth]

Thanks, Nick and JBM. That's the way I'll do it then. No faffing with the supers suits me.

 

[Swift Nick]

Thanks, Nick and JBM. That's the way I'll do it then. No faffing with the supers suits me.

I hope it goes well, I will be consolidating mine on Sunday or Monday, weather depending, I will post how it turned out.
It is good that you don’t have to mess around with the supers, especially as it needs to be done at dusk.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

as i said, i have a similar issue

someone just advised placing the larger angry colony to the side and at an angle fand the smaller colony on the site for a day or two to let the flyers return into the smaller hive before merging

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

as i said, i have a similar issue

someone just advised placing the larger angry colony to the side and at an angle fand the smaller colony on the site for a day or two to let the flyers return into the smaller hive before merging

That sounds mor than a bit strange - so all the 'angry' bees are going to return to find a hive full of strangers in their 'spot' just kill the queen from the angry colony and unite them

 

[Cuckmere couple]

ok

i have an angry colony with 6 frames of brood in a national bb (no supers on)

i have a nice colony on 3.5 frames of bia in a nuc which needs to change position to where the apiary the angry one is in

i want to unite

whats best?

 

[Ian123]

Simply unite the nuc on top of the poor tempered 1 and remove hive/stand from nuc site. Job done

 

[Swift Nick]

Simply unite the nuc on top of the poor tempered 1 and remove hive/stand from nuc site. Job done

Should you add, kill the queen on the poor tempered one? Otherwise the queens will fight it out and the wrong one may lose.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

ok

i have an angry colony with 6 frames of brood in a national bb (no supers on)

i have a nice colony on 3.5 frames of bia in a nuc which needs to change position to where the apiary the angry one is in

i want to unite

whats best?

Put the nuc into a brood box
Kill the 'angry' queen
Late evening, move the 'nuc' over and unite on top of the now Q- 'Angry' colony

 

[Ian123]

Rather thought we had already covered that bit. As jkmb suggests eve is better when the majority of the nucs flyers are home. You may want to prep the angry 1 during the day though by simply laying paper across the box and adding a q-excluder to secure sheet, very little disturbance to the larger hive when you come to do it. I normally make half a dozen pin pricks in a small central area to get them started

 

[Cuckmere couple]

great

thanks for bearing with me and re-answering that

how long between killing q in angry mob and uniting - kill am and unite that eve or leave q- for a day or so first?

 

[madasafish]

great

thanks for bearing with me and re-answering that

how long between killing q in angry mob and uniting - kill am and unite that eve or leave q- for a day or so first?

I have done successfully after 1 hour..(I use air freshener )