Comb trapping for Varroa control - When to start?

[Erichalfbee]

I often wonder how our customers might look at their jar of honey when they realise what could be done to the bees that produced it. Beekeepers are nothing if not ingenious

 

[GuyNir]

I vape from the top, through a Perspex window. Bees completely not bothered.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I often wonder how our customers might look at their jar of honey when they realise what could be done to the bees that produced it. Beekeepers are nothing if not ingenious

Yes, all this posturing about 'raw' honey and yet, off they go, restricting the queen's natural instinct to lay and then dumping three frames of brood in the fire! and all for precious little benefit.
Hopefully, in a few years this will be consigned to room 101 together with all the other crackpot theories we've been subjected to over the years

 

[Frizzaldo]

I've never thought of gassing any sort of creatures as something I want to do......

do you use a smoker?

 

[user 20297]

do you use a smoker?

Touche! Very good. Yes I do have a smoker; it's always by my side when inspecting and I do use it sparingly across the tops of the frames. I suppose that means I ought to use a water spray or nothing at all?
It's a false comparison in terms of the nature and "global" effect of the chemical being applied....you want bees to move away from smoke whereas you want them to be enveloped in acid deposits.

 

[Murox]

I've never thought of gassing any sort of creatures as something I want to do......even if it is supposed to be the lesser of two evils. It's hardly any more appealing than destroying their developing pupae even if it can be proven to be less inefficient.

But its only a gaseous vapour very briefly, it quickly re-crystalizes almost instantaneously spreading through the hive covering the bees with a fine dusting of oxalic acid crystals.

 

[Murox]

Touche! Very good. Yes I do have a smoker; it's always by my side when inspecting and I do use it sparingly across the tops of the frames. I suppose that means I ought to use a water spray or nothing at all?
It's a false comparison in terms of the nature and "global" effect of the chemical being applied....you want bees to move away from smoke whereas you want them to be enveloped in acid deposits.

Have a think about what icing sugar does then, and we know that can harm brood.

 

[Boston Bees]

I've never thought of gassing any sort of creatures as something I want to do......even if it is supposed to be the lesser of two evils. It's hardly any more appealing than destroying their developing pupae

Are you sure?

Personally, I can't see how the destruction of 10,000-odd pupae can even be compared to a regulatory-approved mite treatment which appears to do no harm to the bees whatsoever.

Do you really think the bees, if given a chance to vote, would prefer comb removal?

 

[BugsInABox]

Really? it's not what I have observed. Due to having the luxury of UFE's I vape from under the OMF and don't bother shutting the bees in (absolutely no need to) and I usually step way back from the hive so I can observe what is happening. Apart from the increase in fanning as the sublimate rises in the hive, the only thing I have observed is the bees carrying on with their business as if nothing out of the ordinary was happening - bees leaving and entering the hive without any fuss at all.

Yep it was quite nasty - they really seemed panicky. Could be the heat as Pargyl says but I think many people report a roar during vaping?

 

[SteveG]

Steve
There’s a thread on the subject of queen caging on here, which I started last winter. Everything was said at the time so won’t get into a repeat of it here, other than to say it’s similar principle to comb trapping, but the queen is held in a cage that workers have access in & out of, to tend the queen. All the pros and cons are debated and is backed by many years of study by Ralph Buchler and researchers on several hundred colonies The queen has a brood laying break rather than removing brood.

To answer your question, I plan to do sugar shakes on my colonies first to identify which colonies to select for my ‘trial’, then start queen caging on 2 colonies, in about a weeks time for 3 weeks. By then all the foragers will be produced for my late summer flow in August / Sept and ahead of winter bees being produced from end August, the queen will be released around 1st /2nd week August.

Queen caging / trapping is Ralph’s only method of varroa control now and works well for him. So I’m going to give it a try.

Pics below of the comb I’ve prepared and the size of the cage vs normal queen introduction cages. I sourced the cages from the main supplier in Italy though Thornes sell them.

Be good to stay in touch with you re findings late summer and next spring when over wintering and strength into spring vs other colonies treated with conventional methods, can be compared.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/queen-cage-varroa-management.49511/

Will post with updates.
Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you sure?

Personally, I can't see how the destruction of 10,000-odd pupae can even be compared to a regulatory-approved mite treatment which appears to do no harm to the bees whatsoever.

Do you really think the bees, if given a chance to vote, would prefer comb removal?

And it’s a gift of ammunition for the vegan lobby.
Anyway the OP had his mind made up before he posted I expect so rational or irrational argument will have no effect. At least the practice has got an airing for discussion even if most is condemnation

 

[Sutty]

I wonder if you could obtain the same mite reduction by putting the capped brood frames in formic acid vapour, at a higher concentration than maqs provide, at 37C for a few hours before returning to the colony.

 

[holmbee]

Yes, all this posturing about 'raw' honey and yet, off they go, restricting the queen's natural instinct to lay and then dumping three frames of brood in the fire! and all for precious little benefit.
Hopefully, in a few years this will be consigned to room 101 together with all the other crackpot theories we've been subjected to over the years

My understanding is that you do not"dump three frames of brood in the fire" you just create an artificial break in the brood rearing, giving a colony that has no sealed brood that you then vape to destroy any phoretic mites. So you lose a potential of three WEEKS brood at the end of the foraging season but just before the colony raises winter bees.

 

[Boston Bees]

My understanding is that you do not"dump three frames of brood in the fire" you just create an artificial break in the brood rearing, giving a colony that has no sealed brood that you then vape to destroy any phoretic mites. So you lose a potential of three WEEKS brood at the end of the foraging season but just before the colony raises winter bees.

You are confusing queen caging (where the queen is put in a small cage, hung in a hole the middle of a frame, for 3 weeks), with comb trapping (what is being talked about here). They are completely different techniques. Ralph Buchler covers both of them in his talk though.

Comb trapping does indeed involve destroying three frames of drone brood.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My understanding is that you do not"dump three frames of brood in the fire" you just create an artificial break in the brood rearing, giving a colony that has no sealed brood that you then vape to destroy any phoretic mites. S

Well why not just vape and be done with then instead of all this unneccessary nonsense?
and what happens to all the sealed brood that's in the cage with the queen?

 

[holmbee]

You are confusing queen caging (where the queen is put in a small cage, hung in a hole the middle of a frame, for 3 weeks), with comb trapping (what is being talked about here). They are completely different techniques. Ralph Buchler covers both of them in his talk though.

Comb trapping does indeed involve destroying three frames of drone brood.

A misunderstanding, I think. I am writing about queen caging not comb trapping. With queen caging there is no sealed brood trapped in the cage.

 

[polomadh]

After seeing Ralph’s video a while ago we did the frame trapping trial one club hive (after all what are club apiaries for?) and I have to admit it was very successful. Zero varroa drop.
We placed the trapped frames into a nuc, and vaped with a gas vap. The hive did well through the winter, the nuc less so!

 

[user 20297]

Do you really think the bees, if given a chance to vote, would prefer comb removal?

No, and it isn't getting my vote either.

 

[Boston Bees]

A misunderstanding, I think. I am writing about queen caging not comb trapping. With queen caging there is no sealed brood trapped in the cage.

Best keep that for a different thread I think, to avoid confusing things. This thread is about comb trapping.

 

[Boston Bees]

After seeing Ralph’s video a while ago we did the frame trapping trial one club hive (after all what are club apiaries for?) and I have to admit it was very successful. Zero varroa drop.
We placed the trapped frames into a nuc, and vaped with a gas vap. The hive did well through the winter, the nuc less so!

You put three frames of drone brood all into one six frame nuc?