Comb trapping for Varroa control - When to start?

[user 20297]

Have a think about what icing sugar does then, and we know that can harm brood.

I'm not sure if that means you think I use or like the use of icing sugar or oxalic acid sublimation as either a treatment or a diagnostic method; but for the record, I don't. But if I were a bee I imagine that licking off one of those micro-powdered products being discussed would be a good bit spicier to the tongue than the other.

 

[Sutty]

Anyone know the pH of royal jelly or brood food?

Edit: just searched for this and it's pH is around 4, so it is highly acidic. Maybe that is why the oxalic acid does little harm.

 

[drdrday]

Yep it was quite nasty - they really seemed panicky. Could be the heat as Pargyl says but I think many people report a roar during vaping?

I certainly don't hear anything like a roar during vaping. Again, I have a clear crownboard, so can see inside, and don't notice any change in the bees' behaviour, other than steering clear of the hot end of the Gasvap. I seal the entrance when I'm vaping, and you don't even get a mass exodus when you clear the entrance.
The idea is not to 'gas' the bees, but just fill the hive with tiny particles of oxalic acid that don't hurt the bees, but do hurt the mites.

 

[Murox]

I'm not sure if that means you think I use or like the use of icing sugar or oxalic acid sublimation as either a treatment or a diagnostic method; but for the record, I don't. But if I were a bee I imagine that licking off one of those micro-powdered products being discussed would be a good bit spicier to the tongue than the other.

Just thinking about the 'dust storm' both create. Not sure they lick off the micro crystals of oxalic, I have seen them mutually brush each other down after a vap though.

 

[oliver90owner]

Anyone know the pH of royal jelly or brood food?

Edit: just searched for this and it's pH is around 4, so it is highly acidic. Maybe that is why the oxalic acid does little harm.

pH of 4 is most certainly not highly acidic. That would only be grouped as mildly acidic. Orange juice is about pH 3.5 and apple juice is typically pH 3.

pH of Oxalic acid is shown as:

C2H2O4

oxalic acid

ethanedioic acid

3.00

2.09

1.31

For solutions of 1, 10 and 100mM respectively.

Those figures indicate oxalic is a strong acid.

Honey can be as low as pH 3.5, but that’s just not in the same league as oxalic acid.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Can I ask why you would be ok with moving those frames to another colony and treating them?
Presuming this is a way of not using “chemicals” why not do the whole apiary rather than just a selected colony?
Would you do it again, though?

(Sorry for delay, I'm back)
Moving frames to another colony and treating them there reduces the amount of chemicals I'd need to buy and use. ( Thinking you might end up with a very strong colony and all the others weak and forage reducing. A recipe for robbing.)
Yes, treat the whole apiary in one visit with MAQS and walk away. It's easy. But I want to use less chemicals. (The Apiarist blog raised an issue that you probably need to use OA overwinter to knock the mite numbers back in time for spring. Did OAD in December.)
Do it again? How strong are my principles?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The Apiarist blog raised an issue that you probably need to use OA overwinter to knock the mite numbers back in time for spring.

But is the apiarist correct in his suppositions? I seldom treat my colonies with anything midwinter and my bees are fine.

 

[BugsInABox]

pH of 4 is most certainly not highly acidic. That would only be grouped as mildly acidic. Orange juice is about pH 3.5 and apple juice is typically pH 3.

pH of Oxalic acid is shown as:

C2H2O4

oxalic acid

ethanedioic acid

3.00

2.09

1.31

For solutions of 1, 10 and 100mM respectively.

Those figures indicate oxalic is a strong acid.

Honey can be as low as pH 3.5, but that’s just not in the same league as oxalic acid.

Related: is pH necessarily only how the stuff could be irritant (or effective).

Eg. Uric Acid is I believe not a strong acid - it causes its problems (gout) due to it’s crystal structure.

I seem to have a different experience of vaping to most - but I’m pretty sure mine don’t like it.

 

[oliver90owner]

Related: is pH necessarily only how the stuff could be irritant (or effective).

Eg. Uric Acid is I believe not a strong acid - it causes its problems (gout) due to it’s crystal structure.

I seem to have a different experience of vaping to most - but I’m pretty sure mine don’t like it.

I simply responded to the post by sutty, to keep the record straight.

I made a frame for a trapped queen but never actually used it.

I used to rely on a minimum varroa count in the colony during the winter by treating with Thymol in the autumn. I then often removed the first capped brood (along with nearly all the mites) to other ‘nurse colonies’ in spring.

The ‘nurse colonies’ were treated, as necessary, and the rest of the colonies were deemed varroa free - at least for early in the season. Production colonies were strongly reinforced from some of those, ready for the OSR. No chemicals used on the production colonies during the season - only later on, after harvesting the surplus honey in late August(ish).

There was likely little swarming activity, from the reduced colonies, back at the home apiary which were used for rearing a few queens - except for those I wanted queen cells from. Back then, I was steadily expanding my beekeeping activities - until about ten years ago.

 

[Oculentum]

https://www.abelo.co.uk/shop/national-hive/poly-hives-national/national-queen-trap/
And no, I don't possess a comb trap nor have I used one. OAV does the job.

 

[Patrick1]

Sometimes I just cant help myself, I’m late to this party but as it’s a pet hate ………..well

Why drone or brood trap at all? It may well suit you in some way but in the long term it is exactly the opposite to what is needed, drones eliminated from the local bee populations cannot be good.

These very beekeepers often complain about poorly mated queens and blame everything and everyone except for what they have done.

I would love to not have to import bees, but the truth is until beekeepers start looking in the hives and actually practicing what they profess to be as in “Beekeepers” imports will be essential.

Natures method would be a much better option, a brood break, often happens in mid season when beekeepers think the queen is failing and immediately order a queen from companies like mine then phone and tell us the queen has not been released from the cage or she is dead.

Stop trying to re-invent the wheel.

Go back to solid floors, increase box sizes don’t use a bodge up like brood and half ( I wonder what theory class that one come from) practice some beekeeping.