Comb falling off.

[Nakedapiarist]

I tried an experiment with my National hive - putting in a blank frame top bar to see if the bees would build on it directly. My plan is to set up a small glass sided box next year run along top bar principles so I get a clear view of the comb being built for time lapse and filming.

It worked great - a beautiful heart shaped section of comb was built over about ten days and the bees started to fill it with nectar. I checked it yesterday and it was nicely capped but as I was inspecting, the whole damned thing plopped off the bar - I caught it so at least it hasn't gone to waste.

But - in a normal top bar set up, how do you deal with the fragile nature of comb heavy with honey?

Am I just a clumsy oaf?

 

[For want of a better word]

Seems the TBH set up with sloping sides must offer some support... although natural comb as in roof spaces never seems to "fall"... possibly because it is formed in an S shape rather than flat

perhaps photography room was too hot or a frame side is needed for attachment?

Yeghes da

 

[dexter's shed]

when inspecting top bars, you need to keep them vertical, and not turn like a normal frame,
watch this, me in my first year, shows how to turn bars, 3.58 is a good one


https://youtu.be/li9obrnaRZE

 

[oliver90owner]

'Very carefully' is the answer to your question. Maybe watch some u-toob vids on the topic?

 

[pargyle]

I've found that top bars with a timber 'starter strip' - particularly triangular ones - tend to give the bees more at the top of the frame to attach the comb to. Whilst the comb is fresh (and more so if they have filled it with honey) the joint between the comb and a flat underside of a frame is only sufficiently strong if you keep the comb vertical. But - you've already found that out ...

If you want to go foundationless in order to photograph the comb developing you would be wiser to use frames and some horizontal wires or fishing line which will get incorporated into the comb and provide the support lower down. The bees don't mind and the supports will not be that visible .. particularly if you use nylon monofilament.


Have a look at Tom Bicks thread about foundationless beekeeping ..

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27494

 

[Nakedapiarist]

Thanks. I'll be a lot more careful in future! I am using foundationless in some of my frames but in the filming hive I wanted a more natural looking comb - I'm thinking about how to dress up the 'set' to look more like the inside of a log.

 

[Barbarian]

I have come across lolly sticks/tongue depressors fixed vertically down from the top bar to act as starters for comb.

 

[dexter's shed]

I'm thinking about how to dress up the 'set' to look more like the inside of a log.

perhaps, build one in a log,lol

https://youtu.be/FkTWSXPTAiM

 

[oxnatbees]

Yes it's a problem, at least with honeycomb. Foundationless beeks have experimented with a variety of top bar shapes to reduce this problem.

One thing that's been tried is making a semi-framed bar, with reinforcing dowels going downwards from the bar. This usually doesn't work in my experience because the bees carefully avoid the bars, twisting the comb away from them 8) but if your carpentry is accurate enough to put them at the ends of the bars, parallel to the side of the hive, they work well, as the bees build brace comb to them.

Another approach is to shape the bars as wedges, with rough surfaces, giving the bees a large surface area to hang the comb from.

I moved from Top Bar Hives to Warres partly because of the comb collapse problem. Warres use a similar principle but thebars are much shorter, and more crucially the boxes not so deep, so the comb isn't as heavy per inch of bar.

 

[madasafish]

Having used TBHs for 6 seasons using triangular guides, I almost never get comb collapse.

Why?

Hold comb vertical.

DO NOT inspect on a hot day.

Be extra careful with new comb. Don't lift it if possible, just slide it along.

Comb used for brood (dark) is much stronger and will not taint honey..

Use a frame stand.

 

[Busybee1]

I am new to the bee world but I found the same with the warre hive that the bars would break leaving the comb.

 

[pargyle]

I am new to the bee world but I found the same with the warre hive that the bars would break leaving the comb.

It's an old thread ....

.... but the key to keeping newly made free comb stuck to the top bars is never to let it get out of the vertical plane. Keep it vertical and all the force is downwards through the strength of the interlocking hexagons and the comb wil stay attached. Tilt it, is as you would a framed comb, and the lack of lateral support puts all the weight on the thin edge of the honeycomb where it attaches to the top bar and at that weak point it will break. Downward force is weight x length of level so quite substantial turning moment when the comb has honey in it.

As it gets old the wax hardens and you can take a few liberties but you still have to be caredul with unsupported comb if there is any weight in it.