Colony Losses

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't disagree with JBM's comments about the potentially deleterious effects of some recent husbandry practices (like reliance on fondant feeding)

Yeah the thinking there was to encourage folk to use Google (it's the first result) and throws up lots of other useful info, including the search on here - Peter Little mentions it too (works fine).

Nothing wrong with feeding fondant as an alternative to syrup (seen it used, used it myself) but there is a biiig difference between autumn feeding fondant instead of syrup (and, obviously in large quantities) and the current fad for many of feeding piddling amounts of syrup in ther autumn and then having to revert to 'emergency' feeding of fondant from January onwards (whether it's just slapped on the top bars or in a container above the feeder hole) as the colony is running on fumes.

 

[SWEET]

Nothing wrong with feeding fondant as an alternative to syrup (seen it used, used it myself) but there is a biiig difference between autumn feeding fondant instead of syrup (and, obviously in large quantities) and the current fad for many of feeding piddling amounts of syrup in ther autumn and then having to revert to 'emergency' feeding of fondant from January onwards (whether it's just slapped on the top bars or in a container above the feeder hole) as the colony is running on fumes.

Nail-head; i'm talking 6-12kg per hive in autumn (if needed), usually there is enough Ivy around here to fill the stocks for winter, some take the entire 12.5kg block in a week or two.

 

[Ely]

Nothing wrong with feeding fondant as an alternative to syrup (seen it used, used it myself) but there is a biiig difference between autumn feeding fondant instead of syrup (and, obviously in large quantities) and the current fad for many of feeding piddling amounts of syrup in ther autumn and then having to revert to 'emergency' feeding of fondant from January onwards (whether it's just slapped on the top bars or in a container above the feeder hole) as the colony is running on fumes.

This is pretty much what I meant by 'faff'

 

[Penninetrader]

I will try, for sure... But many beekeepers will ascribe losses to spurious reasons, without challenging themselves to find the true cause.

One such chap, whose (long-standing) apiary is by a watercourse, and who has had a total loss (5 colonies), believes it to be down to 'damp'.

Assuming the hives were sound, I would say unlikely. Was the same site not similarly damp last year? Can a strong cohort not manage humidity?

Better for him to look more closely at e.g. Varroa and Nosema as causes, but the latter requires the desire to get stuff under a microscope, and the former both an informed appraisal of all the visual cues, and an objective, critical view of your treatment regime.

But yes, the truth is out there.

You are correct in that, I usually have to put people under the lamp to get straight answers. Most tell you what they want you to hear and I do not exclude myself from that.

 

[Moobee]

Think it depends where you are and local climate. Without fondant, mine would have perished.
I treated all my colonies (OA vape x3) early September after the supers were off, left one full super each and fed copious syrup. All colonies were heavy.
By the end of an extremely mild October, they were still brood rearing and in (a very mild) November were all light as they had eaten most of the stores. Fondant went on early December and has been replenished early Feb and a mid December vape produced some huge mite drops from some hives. I am surmising that the few surviving mites from the autumn treatment built back up again in the brood rearing late autumn/early winter.
Have lost one nuc to starvation, one colony to a failed Q and one to vermin (probably Pygmy shrews). 6 surviving hives & 7 surviving nucs at the moment.
All have been flying in decent temperatures so fingers crossed…..

 

[Hux70]

1 loss so far this year, my Dadant which was a swarm caught in June and seemed really strong in the autumn. Queen was found dead surrounded by about 30 bees at the top of a frame and a thin layer of dead bees on the OMF. Plenty of stores left.Guess she just failed and the few that were left succumbed to the cold. 6 nationals and a poly nuc doing well so far. Fingers crossed

 

[Murox]

Don't know what losses I have may have yet, still too cold and early to look properly and typically Its windy and rainy when I check the hives are still upright periodically.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Don't know what losses I have may have yet, still too cold and early to look properly and typically Its windy and rainy when I check the hives are still upright periodically.

Have a listen to the side of the hives I always do this when hefting

 

[Swarm]

I will try, for sure... But many beekeepers will ascribe losses to spurious reasons, without challenging themselves to find the true cause.

One such chap, whose (long-standing) apiary is by a watercourse, and who has had a total loss (5 colonies), believes it to be down to 'damp'.

Assuming the hives were sound, I would say unlikely. Was the same site not similarly damp last year? Can a strong cohort not manage humidity?

Better for him to look more closely at e.g. Varroa and Nosema as causes, but the latter requires the desire to get stuff under a microscope, and the former both an informed appraisal of all the visual cues, and an objective, critical view of your treatment regime.

But yes, the truth is out there.

Absolutely, a friend of mine has an apiary site that could be described as 'damp', it's alongside a river. The only losses suffered at this site were the hives washed away by flooding a few years back, even the hives that managed to remain standing despite being half submerged in the flood water survived the ordeal. The colonies suffered no setback and were as healthy and strong as others who were not flooded.
Decent bees, in tune with their environment, sensible apiary management and there should be very little to worry about.

 

[Murox]

Have a listen to the side of the hives I always do this when hefting

yes I do that sometimes. the ones I'm not sure about are my homemade insulated Layens style hives. A wood sandwich with 80mm insulation and tyvek all round.

 

[mbc]

I've had a few calls from some experienced beekeepers, another one this morning, ordering nucs because they've lost bees, one of them has lost all of a dozen hives.
Its a bit perplexing as those of mine I've checked seem fine.

 

[Into the lions den]

I've had a few calls from some experienced beekeepers, another one this morning, ordering nucs because they've lost bees, one of them has lost all of a dozen hives.
Its a bit perplexing as those of mine I've checked seem fine.

Getting the same. A lot reporting mid to late winter collapses. Ours look pretty normal for the stage of the season, not spectacular either way, but some very experienced folk reporting 50% losses already...which can only rise.

 

[Penninetrader]

I am curious how they know this, is it a lack of heat when lifting the roof, I hope they are not exposing the frames to cold. I take the view that if food is there and the hive sound of structure then we are in the lap of the gods until warmer days and flights commence or not.

 

[SWEET]

I am curious

Simple as blowing a little into the hive and using ears, buzz = bees etc - works for me. But you do need to know your bees or risk stung eyeballs.

15° and sunny tomorrow so expect to see them all out on the snowdrops (tons around here)

 

[pargyle]

I've lost two out of six so far and judging by the number of bees flying in the sun today there's another one not looking as busy as I would like ... not opened any of them up yet but definitely two are a goner ... this is the worst I've ever had ... they are all still hefting heavy so it's not stores. As you know I've never treated my bees (13+ years in now) and I've hardly had any over winter losses. I checked for varroa in September, after I'd taken the honey off ... nothing unusual - one was a little higher than I would normally expect and that's one that has gone, but I've taken colonies into winter with the same levels in the past and they have come through. All were well fed in the autumn and with 14 x 12 boxes, well stored, there is normally more than enough to see them through and I usually end up taking a few frames of stores out in the spring.

They were all well established, strong colonies at the close of the season and I got a good crop from all of them - they had honey stored in the brood box and were well topped up with invertbee.

The weather down here is forecast for 15 degrees at the weekend so I'll definitely have a look at the two dead outs and perhaps the other I'm a bit worried about.

If it is varroa then something has changed, my bees are the same and the location is the same, the boxes are the same and my beekeeping has not altered. I've always thought that being TF and not experiencing losses is the result of a combination of a variety of factors and a modicum of luck, so something must have changed or my luck has run out.

Is this the end of my treatment free journey ? I don't know - depends to a great extent on what I find when I have a look.

I've already heard of a few heavy losses down here - not a pattern that's established yet - but it does not make me feel any better that some of my bees are dead.

 

[Penninetrader]

I've lost two out of six so far and judging by the number of bees flying in the sun today there's another one not looking as busy as I would like ... not opened any of them up yet but definitely two are a goner ... this is the worst I've ever had ... they are all still hefting heavy so it's not stores. As you know I've never treated my bees (12 years in now) and I've hardly had any over winter losses. I checked for varroa in September, after I'd taken the honey off ... nothing unusual - one was a little higher than I would normally expect and that's one that has gone, but I've taken colonies into winter with the same levels in the past and they have come through. All were well fed in the autumn and with 14 x 12 boxes, well stored, there is normally more than enough to see them through and I usually end up taking a few frames of stores out in the spring.

They were all well established, strong colonies at the close of the season and I got a good crop from all of them - they had honey stored in the brood box and were well topped up with invertbee.

The weather down here is forecast for 15 degrees at the weekend so I'll definitely have a look at the two dead outs and perhaps the other I'm a bit worried about.

If it is varroa then something has changed, my bees are the same and the location is the same, the boxes are the same and my beekeeping has not altered. I've always thought that being TF and not experiencing losses is the result of a combination of a variety of factors and a modicum of luck, so something must have changed or my luck has run out.

Is this the end of my treatment free journey ? I don't know - depends to a great extent on what I find when I have a look.

I've already heard of a few heavy losses down here - not a pattern that's established yet - but it does not make me feel any better that some of my bees are dead.

This is worrying, if losses are across the board then TF I feel will not be the decider. Those that do survive are the ones I hope you work with to continue what I feel is an invaluable journey.
I do wonder whether the weather of last year, and the abnormality it caused for bees to constantly adjust and survive, that the cost of it is now displaying the consequences.

 

[North End Bees]

Getting the same. A lot reporting mid to late winter collapses. Ours look pretty normal for the stage of the season, not spectacular either way, but some very experienced folk reporting 50% losses already...which can only rise.

If they're very experienced then presumably not starvation or varroosis. Possibly Nosema? Have you had feedback from them on what they suspect?

 

[Etton]

I use takeaway tubs above the top board hole and find sometimes the fondant has dried out & is hard. How do others deal with this?

 

[The Poot]

I use takeaway tubs above the top board hole and find sometimes the fondant has dried out & is hard. How do others deal with this?

Yesterday, I found the same, so removed the tub and replaced with fresh fondant.

As an experiment, I tried adding water to the brittle stuff, then added fresh fondant to it to fill the tub and will see if it reverts to being useable.

 

[Ely]

This is worrying, if losses are across the board then TF I feel will not be the decider. Those that do survive are the ones I hope you work with to continue what I feel is an invaluable journey.
I do wonder whether the weather of last year, and the abnormality it caused for bees to constantly adjust and survive, that the cost of it is now displaying the consequences.

We had a lot of bad weather last season. I suspect there were a lot of poorly mated queens that turned dud in Autumn as a result leading to a lot of these reported losses. It wouldn't explain lost colonies with queens bought from abroad though