Clearing a super

[Tom Bick]

Can anyone help I have a super 80% full and non of it capt and I want the bees to move the contents into the brood chamber so i can remove the last super for winter
In the past I have tried placing the super above a crown board to Little effect despite this being one method also to reasonable success I have deliberately damaged the cone forcing the bees to move the honey before repairing the cone this is not a total success as they will only move honey from the areas of damaged cone and you cannot damage every square inch and its a bit brutal all that hard work
I have also considered placing the said super in a spare hive but this will only encourage robbing
So if anyone has the correct solution or suggestion I would most appreciate it

 

[Rosti]

I would try aggressively un-capping (as you have) and then placing the super of honey you want above the qe at the top of a stack of three (two empty supers below it + crown board on top of it). That should make it far enough from the brood chamber for the girls to want to move it, good luck. Alternatively switch to brood + half for winter and put the super below the brrod box, switch it back in spring (which is what I have done). R

 

[Somerford]

why do you want them to move it ? Just because it isn't capped doesn't mean they won't use it over winter. I suggest removing the queen excluder, feeding a heavy syrup which, yes, they will place on the honey, but the brood nest will utilise this all over the winter.

Alot has been written about the merits or otherwise of wintering on 1 chamber or just on syrup....for years I left them on a brood and a half over winter, making sure the super was full of syrup/honey. They never suffered and come the spring the contents were almost always cleared.

Why make the bees work hard for no reason. It will just wear them out when you actually need them to slow down and survive the winter. More bees in a cluster = more warmth.

S

 

[Tom Bick]

Thanks for the fast replies quite like the idea of placing the super under the brood chamber for a change I have left a super on befor but as the winters are mild in the south east and they hardly touched the super and then had the problem of half honey half sugar syrup or even bits of solid ivy the extra super does give extra security incase of bad weather

 

[Hawklord]

I'm in a similar position with about 5 partially filled frames in a super. I intend to feed it back to them by placing it below the brood box with a q ex between them.

 

[Frisbee]

If you put a crown board with reduced size hole above the brood box, then an empty super on top, then another crown board with reduced sized hole, then the super you want emptying on top of that, the bees - because there is empty space between hive and super will not recognise the honey as theirs and will rob it out and put it very nicely in the brood box. The crownboard holes have to be small though.

Frisbee

 

[Finman]

.
Somerword's advice is the best.

 

[Tom Bick]

Top advice thanks everyone another gap in my beekeeping knowledge filled cheers

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

I don't quite understand.

If I leave a super of nectar above the brood box for the winter, I assume that the little ladies will use this for food. But what is the advantage of moving the super below the brood box? And does it matter if I leave on the Queen Excluder (so that come spring, HM is not busy laying in a super that I want to use for honey)?

I wish they could tell me exactly what they would like!

 

[Finman]

But what is the advantage of moving the super below the brood box? :

natural system is that bees gather honey for winter food and for bad days.

Natural system is that the hiney storage is abobe brood area

Bees make the winter cluster in the site where tha last brood were.

*******

Now, you feed the hive with sugar and bees get their storage capped. Capped storage is up and brood down. That is a good order before winter.

***********

:

And does it matter if I leave on the Queen Excluder (so that come spring, HM is not busy laying in a super that I want to use for honey)? :

Cluster rises up during winter and eate storage. Cluster starts brood rearing at the top of hive.

:

I wish they could tell me exactly what they would like!

If bees can tell you what they like, I think that you are not willing to hear that. Something *.*#@$*.*

Important is that don't make bees to do stupid work.

.

 

[Rosti]

I don't quite understand.

If I leave a super of nectar above the brood box for the winter, I assume that the little ladies will use this for food. But what is the advantage of moving the super below the brood box? And does it matter if I leave on the Queen Excluder (so that come spring, HM is not busy laying in a super that I want to use for honey)?

I wish they could tell me exactly what they would like!

You want your super back in the spring. The girls will tend to ball at the top of their 'space'. Come spring and the queen re-commences laying she'll start laying at the top as well, with your super below you are more likley to get it back without too much brood and it also acts as a bit of a draft buffer over winter assuming you are on an open mesh floor

 

[oliver90owner]

The bees know what they are doing. Finman gives good advice and I, too, agree with Somerford Steve. An 80% full super would likely not fit in the brood, for a start. Brood space is for brooding and they may yet need much more brood before the winter.

The bees are simply waiting to fill the comb before capping. They will almost certainly cap it before winter. They, simply, may be consuming some at present. Let them forage, the season may go on for weeks yet.

In fact, the shorter the winter rest period, the less stores will be needed. Personally I would not feed syrup into a super with 80% honey, but with only one hive the beekeeper may not have the flexibility of swapping frames in and out.

If the bees want to move it you could help that move, but please remember the bees will do what they want to do and it will only cause extra grief or aggro by trying to make them do something they don't want to do!

One question might be how close are these frames? Squeezing them just a little tighter together might encourage the bees to cap them? Depends also whether it is all cells 80% full, or 80% of the cells are full , but not capped. Subtle difference.


Only last wekend I removed a 'part-frame' of uncapped honey from a colony and was taking it away. Checked, with a quick shake over the hive, to see if there was any un-ripe honey in the frame and found it was all nectar (or very nearly).

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

....with your super below you are more likley to get it back without too much brood and it also acts as a bit of a draft buffer over winter assuming you are on an open mesh floor

It will be full of pollen if you put it below.

What is wrong that they keep their super. You neer 5 suopers for the hive however.

In Britain many think that brood cannot be in supers, why not?
What is wrong with that?

 

[Rosti]

It will be full of pollen if you put it below.

What is wrong that they keep their super. You neer 5 suopers for the hive however.

In Britain many think that brood cannot be in supers, why not?
What is wrong with that?

Finman can you explain your thinking further. Are you suggesting the queen excluder stays in place between brood and super? If that's the case then I'll be switching my super back to the top again. Pollen comment noted but surely if it is full now and will be moved back to the top before the spring flows then there is no pollen to get stored (or space in autumn even if there is some)?

 

[Finman]

. Are you suggesting the queen excluder stays in place between brood and super? ?

I did not mentioned anything about excluder but ofcourse it is away for winter.
No reason to keep it even now.

If super is now almost full of uncapped honey, bees lift it upwards. Before winter bees make cells empty from periferia and from cold corners and they concentrate the honey.

I do not know what is situation there now but if they gather pollen, bees put it around brood area.

 

[MJBee]

As Finman says a queen excluder should NOT be left on over winter the reason is that the cluster may move into the super during the winter and leave the queen behind to get chilled and die. It is not a problem if the queen lays in the super in the spring, as soon as the weather is good enough for a full inspection find the queen and make sure she is in the brood box (move her if necessary) and put the Qx back on under the super. 21 days later super is brood free.
Mike

 

[Finman]

.
If frames has pollen and you want to clean them. let the queen lay combs full of larvae. Then put them over excluder and workers will feed brood with pollen.

That is same if combs are old, they have much pollen and you want to take them out of usage.

 

[Rosti]

Thanks all, I've learn't something there. My reason for the interest is that I am moving this hive to a new location where it will be smack in the middle of 50 odd acres of rape. I really want the girls to get going quickly and this super contains the only drawn comb I have. I wanted them to use up the stores over winter and then put it to early good use in spring.

The super is virtually full of honey but I dont have an extractor and dont intend to take the crop - hence giving it to the girls as winter supplies (OK took a frame or two and crushed it because I couldn't resist!). Is the above proposal of super on top but no qe still my best course of action?

Views very much appreciated (sorry for hyjacking the thread Tom)

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

And thanks from me, too. Now I understand (I think). My ladies will be especially grateful to you all!