Choosing a hive?

[Toffeesmum]

Hello there Bee people... after 'planning' to have bees for more years than I wish to think about, we're finally taking the plunge. I am enrolled with the local BKA to attend the theory course next month and am currently researching the topic as much as possible in preparation. Now, we are not impulsive people so will not be rushing out to buy everything possible only to become 'Got the gear, but no idea' and believe me when I say we've been planning to start the hobby for years!!! However, we would also like 2013 to be the year we finally follow our dream, so by joining you brilliant forum will be a great start point to get 'proper' opinions from people 'on the ground'... trust you know what I mean??!!

Anyway, hive design... I am drawn towards a 'Langstroth' system. Therefore your opinion on this would be very much appreciated. Any help and comments would be VERY much welcomed. Would you suggest new, flat-packed or DIY made yourself (am good at this kinda stuff!). If pre-bought flat-pack... ebay or supplier or wait to attend courses for tips??

Thank you in advance

 

[BeeMoustashe]

Hello and welcome! Langstroth's a good choice, nice big brood chamber which is handy. I personally went for commercial because national supers, roofs and floors also fit it and are more readily available second hand.

Flat packs are fairly straightforward, i did it and I'm not that handy. Again personally, ebay is a minefield, some bits are good, others very bad. Probably better to go to a well known supplier, at least initially

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hello there Bee people... after 'planning' to have bees for more years than I wish to think about, we're finally taking the plunge. I am enrolled with the local BKA to attend the theory course next month and am currently researching the topic as much as possible in preparation. Now, we are not impulsive people so will not be rushing out to buy everything possible only to become 'Got the gear, but no idea' and believe me when I say we've been planning to start the hobby for years!!! However, we would also like 2013 to be the year we finally follow our dream, so by joining you brilliant forum will be a great start point to get 'proper' opinions from people 'on the ground'... trust you know what I mean??!!

Anyway, hive design... I am drawn towards a 'Langstroth' system. Therefore your opinion on this would be very much appreciated. Any help and comments would be VERY much welcomed. Would you suggest new, flat-packed or DIY made yourself (am good at this kinda stuff!). If pre-bought flat-pack... ebay or supplier or wait to attend courses for tips??

Thank you in advance

I would find out what HIVES the Shropshire local beekeepers use for the local strain of bee and follow suit, no point in going for langstroth if all the locals use 14x12's,,,you cannot borrow equipment in an emergency and may have difficultly sourcing a nuclei of bees on langstroth frames if no one in Shropshire uses them

ok, you can re frame a nuclei or do a shook swarm into a brood box , but do you want your first beekeeping experience to be changing frames?

we also advise all our beginners to use hoffman frames (sn4 or SN5 in supers and dN5 in a national standard ( Horffmans are standard on langstroth,14x12 and commercial)

BEES, go for a local bee, some of the "alternative sources of bees" dont like wet areas and need to occupy very large boxes

KISS local Bees, Local type Hives

 

[MuswellMetro]

And Welclome to the forum

 

[REDWOOD]

I agree with above, find out what your locals are using, probably nationals deep and 14x12 . probably one of the biggest choices you will make as once you have your hives it's expensive changing.
You said you are good at DIY, have a look at the link below (national hive plans) if your good at carpentry and have the tools, flat packed is the way to go if you don't fancy it , start with 2 hives and 2 spare and lots of supers unless we have another summer like this year
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16932&page=2

Good luck and welcome to the forum
ps post 12 on the link

 

[itma]

As per MM above.
Start by following your new friends so you can, if need be, occasionally scrounge a loan - rather than having to carry your own spare kit to cover all contingencies from day 1.
Think of hiring the Association honey extractor. Does it take Langstroth frames? Will your first bees be available on Langstroth frames?

Langstroth is deservedly popular around the world. The kit is simple and cheap, and more or less internationally standardised.
Building a Langstroth box from scratch would be massively simpler than doing the same for a British National.
When you have 100+ hives, the cheapness of international Langstroths might be very appealing. But for beginners with 2 hives, a 'support network' is much more important. And in the UK, the most support is around National frames, including the 14x12 variant.
As beginners, you may find the long National frame lugs much easier to deal with than the shorter Langstroth ones.

To start with, follow your local herd, even if you think they are missing a trick. Once you know what you are doing, its not hard to change, and local 'standard' kit should be easy to sell on.

 

[Toffeesmum]

Oooo thank you so much, so far...

Well, joining the forum has been worth it already... as I sit here munching on post-Christmas nibbles in eager anticipation of this evenings frivolities, we, my husband and I (sound like Her Majesty now, lol) keep checking for replies to our query. As suggested we will await the therory course in February, and hope we can have everything in place in time to have our hive set up early enough in 2013 to take advantage of the glorious summer ahead (blimey, thats wishful thinking!!!!)

again and I am sure I'll have my next question up, very soon!!

A VERY Happy New Year to you all

 

[oliver90owner]

Chosing a hive???

I see you have resurrected a Dartington thread. Good format in the right place for the purpose required. Not good if you wish to move your colony to the forage, otherwise OK; not popular, but far better than the plastic 'cool box' (beehaus) IMO.

I have run WBCs, the 'standard' National and the current 14 x 12s (on top bee space). I have a beehaus but prefer to run the Dartingtons (two in use at the present time).

I prefer top bee space (as is the Langstroth) to bottom bee space and, I suppose, the longer lugs of the National frames (mainly 'cos I have only had a few short lugged frames and never used them long enough to get used to them).

Choice is always a compromise. PBKA bought a pallet of Langstroth polyhives and I have a sneaky feeling they were not that well received in our area. Poly was good; the frame format not so popular.

I will change to poly, if ever my timber hives wear out. Nearly all my nucs are poly - so much better than timber, IMO for that use.

Another female chippy on the forum; you are relatively rare! Olivia did a very good job on her hive this last year; I have respect the minorities and may they become less rare!

Making your later hives is much easier when you realise the important dimensions and have something to copy, but poly is an alternative which should be considered.

Eventually you will decide on your format - and Langstroth is becoming more poular in the UK, but 'local formats' need to be considered for the reasons given in previous posts.

Changing the odd hive is not so costly, especially if a popular format, so choose carefully initially and seek out as many others to 'check out' before you make too many.

I went National deep on solid floor with BBS initally (Langstroths were near non-existent in those days in the UK and I pensioned off the WBCs after a very short time) knowing those deep broods were easily altered to the jumbo format. I soon changed to TBS 14 x 12s with OMF. The Dartington was an experiment; I then knocked up a second and still use them.

Most things in beekeeping are optional or compromise and several alternatives may be there for the choosing. Have fun and get as much info as you can, before laying out any large amounts of dosh, is my advice.

RAB

 

[beeno]

Well, joining the forum has been worth it already... as I sit here munching on post-Christmas nibbles in eager anticipation of this evenings frivolities, we, my husband and I (sound like Her Majesty now, lol) keep checking for replies to our query. As suggested we will await the therory course in February, and hope we can have everything in place in time to have our hive set up early enough in 2013 to take advantage of the glorious summer ahead (blimey, thats wishful thinking!!!!)

again and I am sure I'll have my next question up, very soon!!

A VERY Happy New Year to you all

Hi Toffeesmum and hubby and Toffee,
Welcome to this forum which is an invaluable resource especially for newbies since we have so many pros willing and able to answer everything we throw at them. God luck with the bees when you get them and be prepared for a steep learning curve. Happy Newbie Year

 

[Toffeesmum]

Aawwwwwwwww thank you again and Happy New Year!!

Pollys Mum also!!! (both dogs!!)

 

[Cazza]

Hi Toffeesmum and welcome to the forum.
I am already jealous on two counts:

1. You are munching away on lovely nibbles - Norovirus has struck here.....
2. You are capable of carpentry and could make your own hives. I wish I could.

Hope beekeeping is all you dream it will be.
Cazza

 

[BeeJayBee]

If you're already drawn towards Langstroths then seriously consider the polystyrene ones, especially Sw1enty, which are moulded and only need a lick of vinyl paint for UV protection and possibly to camouflage them. You can get them from Southdown Bee Farms (sale prices at the moment) and Wynne J0nes (links won't work from here, so Google them), probably other suppliers too.

Your local BKA trainers might well try to push you towards Nationals, but should give you the opportunity to at least look at other hive types. If you ask around you're sure to find that people who use not only Langstroths but almost any other design of hive. Local bee farmers might well use Langs too. If you can take a look and maybe try handling the boxes and frames before parting with any cash you could end up saving yourself both time and money.

 

[masterBK]

Be aware that many beekeepers (> 50% ?) give up after a few seasons. Therefore I would suggest you buy the hive with the least depreciation (= the hive most beekeepers use in your area) so that if you do decide to quit you will lose the least amount of money. This may sound very cynical but is it a factor to be taken into account. There are beekeepers in every association who will always express their individuality by choosing a hive no-one else uses (and they aren't all top bar beekeepers who drive Saabs!) and will always try to persuade beginners to go down the same route.

 

[alanf]

I would suggest you buy the hive with the least depreciation (= the hive most beekeepers use in your area) so that if you do decide to quit you will lose the least amount of money. This may sound very cynical but is it a factor to be taken into account.

Agree, but not only from a cynical angle. If you either give up or adopt another hive type, then your first kit is more likely to find an appreciative home whether you sell or give it away.

One of the factors less appreciated in the first year or two is how often you run short of a few foundation sheets, frames or the odd box. Many associations have a small trading stock or the larger operators carry a few spares flatpacked that you could borrow today and replace next week. When you have been going a few years you can loan in return. That only works with the same format that everyone else uses.

 

[madasafish]

and they aren't all top bar beekeepers who drive Saabs!)

Oi!

Some topbar beekeepers would not be seen dead in a SAAB...

 

[user 6228]

I would buy a hive that is as warm as their natural habitat i.e. tree nest ..

(unfortunately i dont think anyone sells them)

Derek
Not very helpful but thats the state of play.

 

[kevrhcfag]

Welcome, we took it up this year, having not really planned it for very long so other side of the coin.

I am sure you will find the theory course useful, but its a bit different in practice, if only the bees did those courses aswell.

As for equipment you will find beekeepers tend to be fairly opinionated and bias towards what they use and there is a wide choice of hives, then a lot of further choices on formats, materials, ways of working etc. You could spend forever making your mind up. Then there's the bees.

It really boils down to what you want from your beekeeping, is it just interest in the back garden, do you want a lot of honey, how many hives etc. all this has a bearing on what equipment and bees you should get.

I would certainly buy a good suit and smoker, don't forget the feeders various types and good size.

Its a great hobby and the bees are fascinating, much more so than I thought it would be, asking for advice is like choosing a hive, everybody will give different advice, be prepared to make mistakes and take it on the chin and don't beat yourself up about it.

 

[Toffeesmum]

be prepared to make mistakes and take it on the chin and don't beat yourself up about it

Thank you

 

[Toffeesmum]

Lol

 

[sandysman]

Just remember, when you are setting up, you get what you pay for. Whatever decision you make buy the best that you can afford and look after it. It will serve you well.
Welcome to the forum.