Chemotherapy & Untreated Honey

[Bluebell]

I'm having chemo at the moment and have been told to avoid anything that may cause infection. I know that untreated honey shouldn't be given to infants - anyone know what the risks are? I guess I could heat some to make it safe - not managing to eat much but fancy a bit of my honey on porridge!

 

[drstitson]

as near to zero risk as one could imagine without saying no risk. AFAIK the tiny risk to infants is probably all down to imported honey from china

you're much more likely to die of a fungal infection from environment in and around home - but you can't stop breathing can you so can't avoid the spores.

 

[Ely]

My mum has lukeamia and during her time on chemo last year she carried on eating my honey. I'm not saying there was no risk. The thing is there is a constant risk of infection all around you when your amune system is not so good. We got my mum through the worst by making sure she ate well, made sure everyone was hygenic, avoided public places. She still ended up getting several infections but the main thing is hygene. And make sure you keep eating even though you really don't want to. Hope you get well soon

 

[bees4u]

I'm having chemo at the moment and have been told to avoid anything that may cause infection. I know that untreated honey shouldn't be given to infants - anyone know what the risks are? I guess I could heat some to make it safe - not managing to eat much but fancy a bit of my honey on porridge!

I would think it would help you get better!
good luck & get well soon

 

[yeogi75]

BB dont know about the honey
but i do hope evrything goes well

 

[Finman]

BB dont know about the honey
but i do hope evrything goes well

Let's pray

See me safely through the night,
And wake me with the morning light.

Amen.

 

[Norton]

I think it's OK and will help her a lot as it is less strain on the body than sugar. Positive attitude is very important.

 

[Rosti]

Bluebell, I hope the following explanation helps. You should be absolutely fine including honey in your diet and good luck. R

Edit add: just seen the other point you raised. In practical terms you cant easily heat kill C.bot spores. You'll ruin the honey before you achieve a spore kill.

Reasoning:
Honey is not recommended for neonates because of the risk of infant botulinum infection. The infant gut, its flora and acidity are not as well developed as in an older child or adult and there have been instances where clostridium botulinum spores have been able to germinate and then grow within the infant digestive tract, then causing toxin generation resulting in botulism.
The risk is nothing to do with the immune system. The recommended age limit varies by source between 12 and 18 months as a cut of for the consumption of honey. The risk is present simply because C. bot is a soil borne environmental organsim and has the potential (at a low but finite level) to find it's way into honey via dust and pollen (it cant grow in the honey because of the natural Aw). For adults we'll destroy the spore before it can germinate and grow to a level where toxin generation becomes a threat.

 

[Skyhook]

I believe the risk associated with untreated honey is Clostridium botulinum- botulism. A temperature of 121C is needed to kill it, which you probably can't achieve in the kitchen.

While the risk is tiny it is real if your immune system is on the blink- I would check first with your specilist.In the meantime, golden syrup is very nice on porage.

 

[itma]

I'm having chemo at the moment and have been told to avoid anything that may cause infection. I know that untreated honey shouldn't be given to infants - anyone know what the risks are? I guess I could heat some to make it safe - not managing to eat much but fancy a bit of my honey on porridge!

Bluebell, I hope the following explanation helps.

... The infant gut, its flora and acidity are not as well developed as in an older child or adult and there have been instances where clostridium botulinum spores have been able to germinate and then grow within the infant digestive tract, then causing toxin generation resulting in botulism.
The risk is nothing to do with the immune system. ...

The acidity of the adult gut keeps us safe from C. bot *spores* that are found in all sorts of things, not just honey.

Enjoy your honey!

"Heat" would need to be intense - above boiling point, so pressure cooker - to deal with *spores*.
The toxin breaks down at ordinary cooking temperatures. Botulism (toxin poisoning) is associated with undercooked and raw/cold foods.
But you don't get the *toxin* in honey. Just potentially spores, which could produce toxin in a more appropriate environment - like the infant gut.

It only takes a pH of about 4 (not very acid at all) to prevent the spores developing.

Enjoy your honey! It should be perfectly safe for you.

 

[psafloyd]

My missus had chemo finishing in March and she was having honey throughout.

She had better experiences during her treatment than many she has been in contact with.

Can't claim it to be the honey, but it certainly did not hurt.

 

[beekim]

As a newbee i dont know the answer but good luck with your treatment, and hope you are well soon.

 

[victor meldrew]

I'll try to keep this short .
Lady colleague had throat cancer . treated by radio therapy . Slathered my honey on exterior of throat and allowed honey to slide off the back of her tongue down her throat after and before each session . On conclusion of treatment , her Oncologist remarked on her good fortune at not displaying skin damage akin to severe sun burn on her throat . On being told her reasoning ,he shrugged it off . Some years later , a neighbour of mine was diagnosed with throat cancer , he paniced , I put him in touch with Jean , she filled him in on what to expect and managed to calm his fears .
He (on her advice, took some of my honey and mimicked her regime !) Again his oncologist made the same observation and dismissed it out of hand .
Christies in manchester was the specialist centre involved . I believe they are now conducting experiments in this field but alas using Manuka honey (The power of advertising eh?)
VM

 

[village girl]

Let's pray

See me safely through the night,
And wake me with the morning light.

Amen.

sending you good and posative thoughts
and enjoy your honey

 

[victor meldrew]

Botulism (floppy baby syndrome ) is extremely low as a result of eating raw honey . ( some cultures actually place raw honey on the tongue of a new born infant ) There have only bee one or two cases in the USA and none in the British Isles (Not at the last count anyway)
Raw vegetables , fish as in sushi are a far more likely source that honey
VM

 

[Bob Bee]

I'm having chemo at the moment and have been told to avoid anything that may cause infection. I know that untreated honey shouldn't be given to infants - anyone know what the risks are? I guess I could heat some to make it safe - not managing to eat much but fancy a bit of my honey on porridge!

This is commonly sold in Health shops specifically for those undergoing Chemo etc.
http://www.nirvanahealthfood.com/life-mel-honey-113gms.html?gclid=CJXCzJ-tp7MCFSTLtAod_i0Afw

 

[Bluebell]

Thanks for all your kind words. Enjoyed watery porridge with honey this morning!

Bob - an article about that lifemel honey is pinned up in the chemo unit. £40 for 120g! Perhaps if I add a few medicinal plants to my garden next year I can put my prices up!

VM - thanks for radiotherapy tip, I start this in the new year after chemo so will definitely give it a try.

 

[Skyhook]

Botulism (floppy baby syndrome ) is extremely low as a result of eating raw honey . ( some cultures actually place raw honey on the tongue of a new born infant ) There have only bee one or two cases in the USA and none in the British Isles (Not at the last count anyway)
Raw vegetables , fish as in sushi are a far more likely source that honey
VM

Yes, but who'd eat raw fish? That's disgusting!

 

[itma]

Botulism (floppy baby syndrome ) is extremely low as a result of eating raw honey . ( some cultures actually place raw honey on the tongue of a new born infant ) There have only bee one or two cases in the USA and none in the British Isles (Not at the last count anyway)
Raw vegetables , fish as in sushi are a far more likely source that honey
VM

One or two cases in the USA? Ummm ...

In California alone 276 cases of Infant Botulism from 2001 to 2008 ... http://www.cdph.ca.gov/data/statistics/Documents/Infant Botulism-EpiSummary-July09.pdf
and that is with some doubt about the completeness of reporting.

In the United States, an average of 145 cases of botulism are reported each year. Of these, approximately 15% are foodborne, 65% are infant botulism, and 20% are wound.

That's about 94 Infant Botulism cases/year, diagnosed and reported, in the USA ...
http://www.nbafoodadvocate.com/2009/11/20/cdc-statistics-on-annual-u-s-botulism-cases/

About 20% of USA Infant Botulism cases are known to have come from feeding honey to the baby - the remainder are of unknown cause.
http://www.epi.hss.state.ak.us/pubs/botulism/bot_06.htm


It is not a problem for anyone with an adult (acidic) digestive system.
Only for extremely young babies.

 

[drstitson]

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