Chalkbrood

[Erichalfbee]

Yes they do look alike. Superficially

 

[blackcloud]

Thanks folks ,that is more clarity now.
Ian I am indeed focused on CB -its a chalkbrood thread.
Dani the bees hygiene shortcomings exacerbate the condition for sure but the cause is the spores which remain to cause future problems.
They will remain on old comb and foundation too.

Im perhaps simplistically looking at it from the point of view of a non beekeeper charged with biosecurity and that person deduces that there is no absolute cure then.
Even the shookswarm will transfer infected bees and perhaps a few chalks.

I can understand why it is being pushed-the majority of beekeepers will always be new starters who will lack the finesse/skill/art of the experienced old timers.
The blitzing is supposedly an easy low level manouvre to control diseases in all these hives before it becomes pandemic

 

[drex]

Having a medical background I find we beekeepers ideas on sterilisation, disinfection etc laughable. We might scorch a hive, bung in fresh frames and foundation and then tip in a load of bees covered in spores, bacteria etc. All pretty pointless, but I still do it to a degree, but not fanatical about it. I know I am mad. I'm a beekeeper

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks folks ,that is more clarity now.
Ian I am indeed focused on CB -its a chalkbrood thread.
Dani the bees hygiene shortcomings exacerbate the condition for sure but the cause is the spores which remain to cause future problems.
They will remain on old comb and foundation too.

Im perhaps simplistically looking at it from the point of view of a non beekeeper charged with biosecurity and that person deduces that there is no absolute cure then.
Even the shookswarm will transfer infected bees and perhaps a few chalks.

I can understand why it is being pushed-the majority of beekeepers will always be new starters who will lack the finesse/skill/art of the experienced old timers.
The blitzing is supposedly an easy low level manouvre to control diseases in all these hives before it becomes pandemic

Changing the queen worked for me and I have helped others I mentor to do the same.

 

[Ian123]

Dani the bees hygiene shortcomings exacerbate the condition for sure but the cause is the spores which remain to cause future problems.
They will remain on old comb and foundation too.

Black cloud if your coming at it from a non beekeepers view perhaps I can give some practical experience and a beekeepers viewpoint. I’ll happily take 1 of my home reared queens or a queen from a reputable supplier and drop them into a hive with CB issues. I would expect and indeed have found that the CB will clear regardless of any residual spores. The spores are not an issue with well bred bees or just a change in genetics. It really is a non issue for most of us.

 

[Ian123]

Thanks folks ,that is more clarity now.
Ian I am indeed focused on CB -its a chalkbrood thread.
Dani the bees hygiene shortcomings exacerbate the condition for sure but the cause is the spores which remain to cause future problems.
They will remain on old comb and foundation too.

Im perhaps simplistically looking at it from the point of view of a non beekeeper charged with biosecurity and that person deduces that there is no absolute cure then.
Even the shookswarm will transfer infected bees and perhaps a few chalks.

I can understand why it is being pushed-the majority of beekeepers will always be new starters who will lack the finesse/skill/art of the experienced old timers.
The blitzing is supposedly an easy low level manouvre to control diseases in all these hives before it becomes pandemic

Just in regard to the foundation reference…Foundation is a very poor vector for disease, least of all CB.

 

[blackcloud]

Thanks all.
Good discussion,no fatalities.

 

[Finman]

Thanks folks ,that is more clarity now.
Ian I am indeed focused on CB -its a chalkbrood thread.
Dani the bees hygiene shortcomings exacerbate the condition for sure but the cause is the spores which remain to cause future problems.
They will remain on old comb and foundation too.

Im perhaps simplistically looking at it from the point of view of a non beekeeper charged with biosecurity and that person deduces that there is no absolute cure then.
Even the shookswarm will transfer infected bees and perhaps a few chalks.

I can understand why it is being pushed-the majority of beekeepers will always be new starters who will lack the finesse/skill/art of the experienced old timers.
The blitzing is supposedly an easy low level manouvre to control diseases in all these hives before it becomes pandemic

Why are thinking where spores remain?
When you have chalkbrood immune bees, it does no matter,where the spores are . Spores do not affecr bees. And this has nothing to do with hygiene.

You may put the queen lay onto badly sick comb and the new larvae will be healthy . Brood pattern will be even.

The advice is simple: get chalkbrood imune queens. Sometimes you get chalkbrood sensitive queen, but kill it at once and get new queen.

You must change you bees' genepool, and do not take queen from your own apiary.

If you see holes only in drone brood area, you still have s CB genes. Get rid of holes by changing queens and the the apiary will be OK. Still you may get sensitive genes from new matings, but keep spare queens and change sick queens at once when you notice it.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Black cloud if your coming at it from a non beekeepers view perhaps I can give some practical experience and a beekeepers viewpoint. I’ll happily take 1 of my home reared queens or a queen from a reputable supplier and drop them into a hive with CB issues. I would expect and indeed have found that the CB will clear regardless of any residual spores. The spores are not an issue with well bred bees or just a change in genetics. It really is a non issue for most of us.

Someone speaking the truth. Thank you Ian. Chalkbrood is a genetic fault in the bees. It's not poor ventilation. It's not a shady apiary or a cold wet spring. It is 100% genetic. Of course requeening is the proper course. But with what? The same old, same old? Roll the Dice? Is your queen breeder using the frozen brood assay to measure the % hygienic content in their stock? No? Change your breeder. Or demand the job be done. Honest folks...come on. I'm not being confrontational. Chalkbrood is an easy one to fix.

 

[Antipodes]

This article investigating factors influencing the outbreaks of chalkbrood is really good stuff and findings might surprise and inform. Nice photo of one of our spiders on page four too

https://www.agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/21-034.pdf

 

[Finman]

This article investigating factors influencing the outbreaks of chalkbrood is really good stuff and findings might surprise and inform. Nice photo of one of our spiders on page four too

https://www.agrifutures.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/21-034.pdf

Yes, that article handles factors, which causes outbreak of chalkbrood. That does not help.

Only which help, is change your apiary's genes.
I read those same things 25 years ago.

You can go directly to the solution: change the queens.

It is same as " what to do when I have angry bees". You can describe 50 reasons, why bees are angry, but only one solution is, change the queens.

 

[Finman]

Chalkbrood is an easy one to fix.

Follow that path

 

[blackcloud]

Michael that's valid,and fine until you start to look around.
The storefront of the majority breeders/dealers portal will have the usual drivel about Brother Adam and how their stock is better than yours but will usually make no further claims regarding disease resistance.
It's pretty much guaranteed that an actual conversation with them would reveal 'corporate deflection' or that its, way down the priorities-some anecdotal findings suggest they are at best just trying to get the stock to lay fertilized eggs.

There will of course be a minority producing Rolls Royce stock but they could never supply the demand.
What the majority of beekeepers will be offered is pretty much the same thing- just at wildly varied pricing.
New keepers and those on tight budgets will have, respectively ,no idea and no choice so we will continue on this slightly downward spiral

 

[Antipodes]

Yes, that article handles factors, which causes outbreak of chalkbrood. That does not help.

Only which help, is change your apiary's genes.
I read those same things 25 years ago.

You can go directly to the solution: change the queens.

It is same as " what to do when I have angry bees". You can describe 50 reasons, why bees are angry, but only one solution is, change the queens.

I did change many of my queens to Italian some years ago and sadly it didn't eliminate the chalkbrood. The article discusses many of the reasons and is really is worth a read Finman if you get a chance.

 

[Finman]

I did change many of my queens to Italian some years ago and sadly it didn't eliminate the chalkbrood. The article discusses many of the reasons and is really is worth a read Finman if you get a chance.

You did not succeeded to find chalkbrood immune queens. That was your problem.

I read everything about chalkbrood 30 years ago.

 

[Ian123]

You did not succeeded to find chalkbrood immune queens. That was your problem.

I read everything about chalkbrood 30 years ago.

Aussie queens appear to have a bit of a reputation for it. I found the NZ Italians also prone but the F1 daughters tended to have fewer issues! A certain gentleman did bring a number of Aussie queens in some years ago and the reports were not great.

 

[Ian123]

Michael that's valid,and fine until you start to look around.
The storefront of the majority breeders/dealers portal will have the usual drivel about Brother Adam and how their stock is better than yours but will usually make no further claims regarding disease resistance.
It's pretty much guaranteed that an actual conversation with them would reveal 'corporate deflection' or that its, way down the priorities-some anecdotal findings suggest they are at best just trying to get the stock to lay fertilized eggs.

There will of course be a minority producing Rolls Royce stock but they could never supply the demand.
What the majority of beekeepers will be offered is pretty much the same thing- just at wildly varied pricing.
New keepers and those on tight budgets will have, respectively ,no idea and no choice so we will continue on this slightly downward spiral

If the breeders or dealers spout drivel as you say or perhaps some don’t wish to pay! Why not just raise your own and select….I’m sure there’s better things to crusade over than those dastardly breeders and chalk brood

 

[blackcloud]

If the breeders or dealers spout drivel as you say or perhaps some don’t wish to pay! Why not just raise your own and select….I’m sure there’s better things to crusade over than those dastardly breeders and chalk brood

I'd love to but until retirement rears its lovely head ,mine will all be from the feral stock ranging between lively and phsycopathic.
It's a steep climb uphill from that!

 

[Finman]

I'd love to but until retirement rears its lovely head ,mine will all be from the feral stock ranging between lively and phsycopathic.
It's a steep climb uphill from that!

Phsycopathic = who is suffering mental disorder..... just defending its home or what?

And you do not have feral bees in Britain, except those derived from last Ice Age in shallow valleys.

 

[Boston Bees]

I'd love to but until retirement rears its lovely head ,mine will all from feral stock ranging between lively and phsycopathic.
It's a steep climb uphill from that!

You can say that again!