Certan now not available

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Certan (B401 Bacillus thuringiensis) is (temporarily?) unavailable just now. Does anyone know if stored drawn combs can be protected from wax moth by being sprayed with a product like TOPBUXUS XenTari which contains Bacillus thuringiensis and is sold to gardeners as a safe biological product for protecting plants from caterpillars?

 

[enrico]

Certan (B401 Bacillus thuringiensis) is (temporarily?) unavailable just now. Does anyone know if stored drawn combs can be protected from wax moth by being sprayed with a product like TOPBUXUS XenTari which contains Bacillus thuringiensis and is sold to gardeners as a safe biological product for protecting plants from caterpillars?

I use dipel which is the same stuff so yes

 

[Angry_Mob]

It was withdrawn last year, was talk of a new formulation (B402?) but not aware of it being released.

Some people purchased and used Dipel DF: DiPel Archives - The Apiarist

Doesn't seem as readily avaliable at the same price this year however. Would be worth checking the active ingredients and comparing with your proposed product.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

It was withdrawn last year, was talk of a new formulation (B402?) but not aware of it being released.

Some people purchased and used Dipel DF: DiPel Archives - The Apiarist

Doesn't seem as readily avaliable at the same price this year however. Would be worth checking the active ingredients and comparing with your proposed product.

Thank you! The problem with Dipel is that it's not easy to buy a small quantity. The description for TOPBUXUS XenTari gardener's spray states: BIOLOGICAL PRODUCT - XenTari is a biological insecticide containing a natural, potent strain of the microorganism Bacillus Thuringiensis subspecies Aizawai (Bta) that controls caterpillar pests.

I'm wondering if beekeepers who used to use Certan are finding products like this (which may be used at different dilutions to Certan) a satisfactory substitute?

Or does freezing in a freezer (we had very few frosts last winter) or acetic acid fumigation cover most people's needs?

Anyway, I'll give it a go.

 

[masterBK]

I find fumigation by burning sulphur strips also very effective (and cheap).

 

[drex]

I used sulphur until last year and had no problems. I then switched to Dipel and had no problem over this winter.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

I used sulphur until last year and had no problems. I then switched to Dipel and had no problem over this winter.

Could you tell me where you got DiPel and what the product is called - if it has a brand name? Thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Could you tell me where you got DiPel and what the product is called - if it has a brand name? Thanks.

Dipel seems to have disappeared. I got some from eBay a couple of years ago
I think if you look on Amazon and eBay for Xentari

 

[pargyle]

Dipel seems to have disappeared. I got some from eBay a couple of years ago
I think if you look on Amazon and eBay for Xentari

It is still available but the price has gone up a lot since I bought mine, doesn't seem to be on ebay or amazon any more though:

https://www.agrigem.co.uk/dipel-df-500g

 

[ics19]

If you're looking for more than a bottle, then the €15 shipping may be worth it:

B401 tegen wasmotten

Seems to have a decent expiry date and they're a very efficient supplier apparently

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

My trading standards officer says under no circumstance should dipel be applied to frames that are going to be used for food production.
Its not licensed for said use.
I am awaiting for clarification on sulphur use, grey area as a gas not directly applied to frames.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My trading standards officer says under no circumstance should dipel be applied to frames that are going to be used for food production.
Its not licensed for said use.
I am awaiting for clarification on sulphur use, grey area as a gas not directly applied to frames.

That's why it's so much easier storing the frames wet
But isn't Dipel used directly on vegetables? Does it not break down in sun light? Seems daft to me.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My trading standards officer says under no circumstance should dipel be applied to frames that are going to be used for food production.

Don't tell the bugger then

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

Unfortunately accurate records have to be kept of all chemical usage for traceability. Cannot deny use when invoices are mostly electronic these days.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Looking on Ebay it's expensive stuff. If I did buy any it would have to be for vegetable treatment, possibly shared with a number of other gardening enthusiasts.

 

[MuswellMetro]

B401 was never an approved medicant and i dont expect B402 will be as not applied on bees 80% acetic acid treament in on NBU web site and you could show your Trading Standard that DEFRA are promoting its use and Acetic Acid for cleansing comb You dont have to tell them it has an EC number 200-580-7 in the danergous substances register

 

[Murox]

My trading standards officer says under no circumstance should dipel be applied to frames that are going to be used for food production.
Its not licensed for said use.
I am awaiting for clarification on sulphur use, grey area as a gas not directly applied to frames.

Of course your Trading Standards Officer said that - they couldn't say anything else really - Its not licensed for said use.

 

[pargyle]

That's why it's so much easier storing the frames wet
But isn't Dipel used directly on vegetables? Does it not break down in sun light? Seems daft to me.

Agree ... I've never had a problem with supers stored wet ... brood frames though are a very different matter ... as the Dipel is used on brood frames I would suggest that as I don't extract honey from these under normal circumstances it is not being used in food production. I'm not even sure whether Dipel (or Certan for that matter) because of the fact that it's a Bacillus could even be considered as a 'treatment' - chemical or otherwise. As you say, it's used to control caterpillars in vegetable production - it does not affect the vegetables and the bacillus certainly does not attach itself to the vegetables - its host is the pest. I cannot see how it would get in to honey - even if you did use it on supers ? My understanding is that it has a limited life on the frames anwyay. Furthermore - it's not a treatment for your bees .... when it is used your bees are not on the frames.

Bit of Trading standards scaremongering and perhaps lack of knowledge going on here ...

 

[gmonag]

it's not a treatment for your bees .... when it is used your bees are not on the frames.

 

[user 15607]

Certan (B401 Bacillus thuringiensis) is (temporarily?) unavailable just now. Does anyone know if stored drawn combs can be protected from wax moth by being sprayed with a product like TOPBUXUS XenTari which contains Bacillus thuringiensis and is sold to gardeners as a safe biological product for protecting plants from caterpillars?

Email from Vita Europe today “B401’s replacement B402 will not be available for 2-3 years in UK