Cell size

[mr_so]

These bits of comb were taken from different hives during the last few weeks, tonight my wife noticed that the cells on one were larger than those in the other, is this just normal variation? Both of the combs were built in ekes above the crown board while feeding 2:1 syrup if that makes any difference.. The cells on the left are about 6.5mm across, on the right about 5mm.

 

[Anduril]

The larger cells are drone cells the smaller ones are worker cells.

 

[La Folie]

Yep, I agree. Try to work with an experienced beek and they will point such things out to you

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don't know about drone cells in a feeding eke. Bees will make big cells to store honey in left to their own devices.

 

[For want of a better word]

Beowulf A Cooper in the Honeybees of the British Isles ( BIBBA publication) mentions standard cell foundation of 850 ~800 cells per square decimeter... going on to say that the native strain being a larger an fitter bee for our environment builds larger cells of 700 and up to 720~750.

Drone cell size is a lot larger 600 per square decimeter?

Some foundation wax suppliers still list drone foundation for supers.... does anyone use this? explanation given to me was that it negated the use of a queen excluder as the queen prefers to lay drone brood below the brood foundation... and also more honey can be stored in it.I use drone foundation in the outer brood frames of the Rose hives as I need drones for drone flooding.

Sorry possibly a bit off topic!

Yeghes da

 

[alfazer]

Some foundation wax suppliers still list drone foundation for supers.... does anyone use this? explanation given to me was that it negated the use of a queen excluder as the queen prefers to lay drone brood below the brood foundation... and also more honey can be stored in it.I use drone foundation in the outer brood frames of the Rose hives as I need drones for drone flooding.

Sorry possibly a bit off topic!

Yeghes da

Drone foundation, when drawn, produces a frame with more honey/less wax than worker foundation. I believe if you had cut comb, a section, or a full frame being judged in a show and all other things were equal, then the one with drone sized cells would win over the others.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Drone foundation, when drawn, produces a frame with more honey/less wax than worker foundation. I believe if you had cut comb, a section, or a full frame being judged in a show and all other things were equal, then the one with drone sized cells would win over the others.

That's interesting. About the judging. Can you get drone thin foundation?

 

[Davelin]

Drone foundation, when drawn, produces a frame with more honey/less wax than worker foundation. I believe if you had cut comb, a section, or a full frame being judged in a show and all other things were equal, then the one with drone sized cells would win over the others.

BBKA guidelines for judging say the opposite, cut comb honey:

"...worker foundation preferred to drone foundation...."

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I believe if you had cut comb, a section, or a full frame being judged in a show and all other things were equal, then the one with drone sized cells would win over the others.

You may believe it, but in reality the opposite is the case, capped drone cells do not look as 'good' as worker cells when on display - wax cappings are translucent and get thinner towards the edges of each cell - with the larger surface area of drone caps the honey shows through around the edges more making the whole comb look patchy and dark (especailly with medium honeys at the top end of colour)
This was pointed out to me by a seasoned shower at the Royal Welsh a few years ago who had (in his words) foolishly used drone foundation that year. Even though technically his frame of honey was perfectly finished in every other aspect, the fact that each cell had a dark ring around the edge made it look pretty poor and the cappings looked dark (although they weren't) and he was marked down and lost the cup to a frame nowhere near as good in everyone elses opinion.

 

[mr_so]

Yep, I agree. Try to work with an experienced beek and they will point such things out to you

I agree also, in fact that was the first answer I gave to my wife when she asked

FWIW I do have mentors available and make full use of them, but a week or so ago someone posed the question of why it was so quiet in here, if we all ask our mentors then there's nothing to be asked here and no point in even having a forum... I'm just making full use of the facilities available to me and getting as many answers as are available, and trying to put a bit of life into the beginners section while I'm doing it

So, following on from the answer given, why would one hive make drone cells for storage while another makes worker cells, is it just chance or is there perhaps some deeper reason for it?

 

[mr_so]

I don't know about drone cells in a feeding eke. Bees will make big cells to store honey in left to their own devices.

Quite reassuring that they aren't looking to make any drones at this time of year, the reasons for that possibility wouldn't bear thinking about!

 

[user 6228]

I don't know about drone cells in a feeding eke. Bees will make big cells to store honey in left to their own devices.

Beat me to it

 

[Fusion_power]

is it just chance or is there perhaps some deeper reason for it?

We can describe what the bees do, but we don't necessarily understand all the reasons. For example, drone combs are built fatter than worker combs. I've seen drone cell size combs full of honey that were a full 2 inches thick. This is a very efficient storage method for winter provisions.

A swarm naturally builds worker comb first. They have no need of drones when getting established. Typically an area of about 35,000 cells will be built before the brood nest is finished. After that, the bees work on honey storage. These may be worker cells but larger than the worker cells in the core of the brood nest or they may be drone cells in some mixture such that the end result is about 25 to 30 percent of the combs built for drones.