Caught Swarm..... Advice Please

[BrianO]

Hi Guys

Well another first for me....lots of " firsts " in this game... not always good but this one is

Bait hive up attracted a swarm of bees over the weekend, were not there friday... but on checking just now... have taken up residence, some time between Friday and now.

In year 3 and learnt a lot, but swarm collection is fairly new territory to me.
i
Collected a cast last year but disappeared on me as I handled them incorrectly.

Now to the question ... bait hive has nothing in it but an old black single empty brood frame.
Have other Apiary sites, one communal where i would be inclined to move them to a distance away ( 3 miles plus ).

Do not want to lose them/see them abscond.

Should i shut them up after foragers return in evening, bring them to new site, empty onto incline and guide into new hive ? then feed immediately ?

Any sound advice so I can get this right ....MUCH appreciated !

Should add... anyway of moving them, leaving them in same hive for moment, by opening and adding new frames ... without them dissapearing / absconding ?

 

[thenovice]

You need to fill up the bait hive with frames ASAP or it's going to be a messy cut out for you soon.

More info needed:

how for is the new site?
if far enough, you can just shut shop in the evening and move to new site. if brood is present, absconding very unlikely.

feeding is optional. but certainly not before they are on frames with foundation ;-).

 

[BrianO]

Thanks

What more info needed ?

My concern is them absconding if i open up straight away and fill with new frames ( one already drawn frame in there ) could also add a spare frame of stores i have ?

very much doubt new eggs present, as just arrived yesterday or saturday, maybe I am wrong ? how long normally before queen will come into lay ?

 

[thenovice]

timing wise:

I have only collected swarms so not familiar with bait hives but as they have been there 2 days, I presume they have oriented themselves by now so 3 meter/3 mile rule should apply. I would add frames and wait until brood is present. then move to new location to be sure but it should not really matter that much unless you put them in a really stupid place they do not like.

 

[thenovice]

Thanks

What more info needed ?

My concern is them absconding if i open up straight away and fill with new frames ( one already drawn frame in there ) could also add a spare frame of stores i have ?

very much doubt new eggs present, as just arrived yesterday or saturday, maybe I am wrong ? how long normally before queen will come into lay ?

More info is how for you need to move.
I have never given stores as a swarm should not expect stores. I do however feed light syrup to make them draw comb faster. they will store some of that as well. a frame of stores would not help them much in good weather as it can not be used to draw comb or lay eggs.

 

[MuswellMetro]

what does your bait hive consist of?, is it a national hive? Nuc Box? or Just a temp cardboard/ply box

what ever it is it needs frames ASAP as swarms can draw wild comb incredibly fast, i expect you already have two large pieces of wild comb hanging from the inside of the crown board ( or whatever forms the roof of the box

put frames in best as you can, tight up. after carefully removing any wild comb

moving, first prepare the new site and add TWO straps around the floor roof etc during the day, then at night block up the entrance, you can move at night but i prefer to move the box early morning next day, the hive should have the frames parallel to the direction of travel ( ir end of frame facing forward towards the front of the car otherwise they bounce and slap when you brake

once on site, open up and cover the entrance with loose grass

 

[BrianO]

Thanks Guys.

what does your bait hive consist of?, is it a national hive? Nuc Box? or Just a temp cardboard/ply box

Timber National empty bar one old black ( as recommended ) drawn used now empty of course frame, with empty super above .

OK. So plan based on advice is to open up today , fill in with correct number of frames, rubber band any drawn comb , if possible into/onto foundation frames, and leave in situ for few days to settle before moving to new site .. Sound correct ?

Is there a chance of them absconding if opened today, should I put a QE over entrance for a couple of days ?

Thank You

 

[RogueDrone]

If you have or can get hold of a frame of open brood insert use it. That will hold the bees for you and then remove once capped and Queen is laying. This will remove any varroa.

 

[BrianO]

Thanks but due to site being not near that is not an option

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Thanks but due to site being not near that is not an option

Swarms retain the characteristics of a swarm for several days and the three mile rule can generally be ignored - they can be relocated close by.

Casts i.e. swarms whose queen is a virgin are much more likely to abscond than a top swarm.

As they are in a brood box, fill it with frames of foundation and tie any wild comb into a frame.

When you move them to new location release them in the evening, if they are confined for any length of time, plenty of ventilation and spray a few times.

Feed them, they will draw comb very rapidly

Ge to work on them this evening, no time like the present!

 

[BrianO]

Thank You All !!!!

 

[Millet]

I am in a similar predicament myself, my artificial swarm did not work and my old Queen swarmed into a Nuc box i had made and placed on top of a garden shed, i opened it up on the 3rd day and 2 frames where nearly drawn and while it was open i filled the space with frames of foundation, on the 5th day the two frames where fully drawn and full of eggs and nectar.
If you look at my thread in the beginner section titled whoops you will see what i was advised to do by Erica and up to now all seems ok, i will know for sure on Friday when i open the hive up to remove the QX from below.

 

[BrianO]

Well

What a day, yesterday after above report, stayed behind at office where bait hive located, unlocked yard, alarms off, got all equipment ready, Brood and super frames, smoker well lit, climbed up to hive , sweat running down my forehead, opened up ready for action.... Nothing.... You gotta laugh.. well took me a while but did later.

fast forward to today, Glorious day, sunshine 17 degrees, calm. Spotted up the road about 300mtrs from bait hive location a swarm in flight. Found them in a carpark in a bush, checked my bait hive and saw they were in transit to it. Just checked now midday and nearly all in bar a couple of hundred at resting place location they had stopped off at.

So now they are just in, in a national and super with 1 old drawn empty brood frame.

best Action plan: ?? To leave tonight to allow all stragglers to enter, to let them get settled also overnight, then to open up tomorrow later in day , add foundation and one more drawn brood frame to middle ( then 2 drawn brood frames ) and super foundation frames. ??

Should I at this early stage 9 tomorrow ) attempt to clip and mark queen , if can be found ??

Any other advice , do appreciate previous advice but as now I know they have just entered thought advice might be slightly different.

Cheers

 

[Erichalfbee]

I am in a similar predicament myself, my artificial swarm did not work and my old Queen swarmed into a Nuc box i had made and placed on top of a garden shed, i opened it up on the 3rd day and 2 frames where nearly drawn and while it was open i filled the space with frames of foundation, on the 5th day the two frames where fully drawn and full of eggs and nectar.
If you look at my thread in the beginner section titled whoops you will see what i was advised to do by Erica and up to now all seems ok, i will know for sure on Friday when i open the hive up to remove the QX from below.

You can probably take out that QX now

 

[Millet]

You can probably take out that QX now

I would if i was there but i am away till Thursday/Friday hopefully the drones will be ok till then.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well







Any other advice , do appreciate previous advice but as now I know they have just entered thought advice might be slightly different.

Cheers

I would move them tonight when they have stopped flying.
I wouldn't go looking for the queen for a week.
I might put a piece of QX over the entrance for 2 days ( I don't like QXs under a brood box but that's a personal thing)

 

[BrianO]

Thanks !!! Erich sounds like a plan !!!

When / how soon would you open up and fill with frames, presume needs to be done urgently ... today / tomorrow AM before wild comb is drawn ??

Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well

What a day, yesterday after above report, stayed behind at office where bait hive located, unlocked yard, alarms off, got all equipment ready, Brood and super frames, smoker well lit, climbed up to hive , sweat running down my forehead, opened up ready for action.... Nothing.... You gotta laugh.. well took me a while but did later.

fast forward to today, Glorious day, sunshine 17 degrees, calm. Spotted up the road about 300mtrs from bait hive location a swarm in flight. Found them in a carpark in a bush, checked my bait hive and saw they were in transit to it. Just checked now midday and nearly all in bar a couple of hundred at resting place location they had stopped off at.

So now they are just in, in a national and super with 1 old drawn empty brood frame.

best Action plan: ?? To leave tonight to allow all stragglers to enter, to let them get settled also overnight, then to open up tomorrow later in day , add foundation and one more drawn brood frame to middle ( then 2 drawn brood frames ) and super foundation frames. ??

Should I at this early stage 9 tomorrow ) attempt to clip and mark queen , if can be found ??

Any other advice , do appreciate previous advice but as now I know they have just entered thought advice might be slightly different.

Cheers

Why the super?
Bit late now - they will be drawing comb from the crown board and going great guns. Forget more drawn comb, ASAP, if you can, ditch the super fill the brood with frames and foundation and let them go crazy making wax (it's what swarms do) consider giving a feed of 1:1 in a few days if you want them to carry on comb drawing.

 

[Millet]

Thanks !!! Erich sounds like a plan !!!

When / how soon would you open up and fill with frames, presume needs to be done urgently ... today / tomorrow AM before wild comb is drawn ??

Thanks

Two frames of foundation in mine that where fully drawn by the 5th day but i suppose it would be drawn quicker with a larger swarm.

 

[BrianO]

thanks

Super as read optimum bait hive size is slighly larger than national standard, so JB you advocate opening today to fill with foundation ?