Can one treat for varroa while they're making a new queen?

[ugcheleuce]

Hello everyone

I understand that it is best to treat for varroa when the colony is broodless. One way of making the colony broodless is to make it queenless, and then wait for the new queen to hatch, and shortly afterwards there'll be no more brood. But, would it be possible to start varroa treatment directly after making the colony queenless (i.e. when they create a new queen cell and make it into a queen)? Will it be detrimental to the new queen if she grew up in an acid infested environment? I'm thinking of using ApiLife Var (thymol), which is a month long treatment.

Thanks
Samuel

 

[JohnyP]

Hello everyone

I understand that it is best to treat for varroa when the colony is broodless. One way of making the colony broodless is to make it queenless, and then wait for the new queen to hatch, and shortly afterwards there'll be no more brood. But, would it be possible to start varroa treatment directly after making the colony queenless (i.e. when they create a new queen cell and make it into a queen)? Will it be detrimental to the new queen if she grew up in an acid infested environment? I'm thinking of using ApiLife Var (thymol), which is a month long treatment.

Thanks
Samuel

I'm no expert but the reason it is best to treat when broodless is because a large proportion of the mites develop within the sealed brood and these are more difficult to get at.

So it's not about the effect on the queen's development but the efficacy of the treatment. So, for example, a good time to treat with OA is after housing a swarm when there is no sealed brood.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hello everyone

I understand that it is best to treat for varroa when the colony is broodless. One way of making the colony broodless is to make it queenless, and then wait for the new queen to hatch, and shortly afterwards there'll be no more brood. But, would it be possible to start varroa treatment directly after making the colony queenless (i.e. when they create a new queen cell and make it into a queen)? Will it be detrimental to the new queen if she grew up in an acid infested environment? I'm thinking of using ApiLife Var (thymol), which is a month long treatment.

Thanks
Samuel

As I understand the method the reason for the extended period of treatment is to cover a whole brood cycle and hence "nail" nearly all the mites, both the phoretic ones on the bees and exposed to the thymol, plus any which are concealed in brood cells which will be exposed at the end of the pupation period. Apiguard and Apilife Var have similar treatment periods and work in this way. No need to deliberately stress your colony by removing the queen under normal circumstances. Are you confusing winter Oxalic Acid one shot trickle treatment methods during normal brood break with Autumn Thymol perhaps?

 

[mbc]

The whole sex thing is quite reliant on pheromones, or smells, with honey bees. For this reason I've always tried to steer clear of thymol when there's virgins about.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The whole sex thing is quite reliant on pheromones,.

.............And alcohol I find.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Are you confusing winter Oxalic Acid one shot trickle treatment methods during normal brood break with Autumn Thymol perhaps?

No, I'm trying to figure out whether it would be possible to convert from a weekend beekeeper to a monthend beekeeper (i.e. instead of doing 1 day every week (or every two weeks), rather do 3 consecutive days once a month). This is because my hives aren't exactly within walking/cycling distance from my house.

And because I've not been able to do varroa treatment diligently this year, even as a weekend beekeeper, and because I now see what a treatmentless colony looks like one month before winter, I'm making varroa treatment a scheduled priority next year.

I'm curious about what would happen if I were to start the treatment on the same day (or within one day) that I perform the split.

 

[Marton]

I was taught the Summer requires weekly review, not always inspections per se, as the swarm goes out on the 8th day as the QC is capped.

Surely the monthly beekeeper risks swarm loss. Not good for honey production or neighbourly relations?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ugcheleuce]

Surely the monthly beekeeper risks swarm loss. Not good for honey production or neighbourly relations?

That is indeed a risk, but that is also why one does artificial swarming, right? But yes, I've been thinking how I can reduce the risk of swarming in advance.

 

[A beehive]

Hi
I was a bit late to treat my hive with apiguard and I apply MAQS. After 7 day I removed the strip . I gave a quick look to hive and could not see any eggs. I am worried abouth the Quine's present. Today weather was not good but I will have a look carefully when we have a nice day.
My hive is full of honey . Do I need to give them sugary water now?
Thanks
Ayse from Nottingham .

 

[Hivemaker.]

My hive is full of honey . Do I need to give them sugary water now?

No need to give them sugary water if the hive is full of honey, as there would be nowhere for the bees to put it.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

No, I'm trying to figure out whether it would be possible to convert from a weekend beekeeper to a monthend beekeeper (i.e. instead of doing 1 day every week (or every two weeks), rather do 3 consecutive days once a month). This is because my hives aren't exactly within walking/cycling distance from my house.

And because I've not been able to do varroa treatment diligently this year, even as a weekend beekeeper, and because I now see what a treatmentless colony looks like one month before winter, I'm making varroa treatment a scheduled priority next year.

I'm curious about what would happen if I were to start the treatment on the same day (or within one day) that I perform the split.

Your remark about treatmentless colonies perhaps needs expanding upon for the benefit of those suggesting not treating for varroa?

 

[Finman]

.
It is not recommended to treat hive during yield period. Thymol spoils the honey.
To rear a queen in a hive, which is not able to gather yield, is not good idea if the hive is so weak. To treat summer size hive is not easy.

I have planned couple of years to treat hives during artificial swarming, but at same time in reality yield has come in so much that treatment was impossible.

After all, there should be enough time during the year treat hives outside the yield period and not spoil yield season.

There is a Dutch method, how mites can be catched into brood after brood brake. I tried it once but mites were so much that hive died during Autumn. Brood was like mite porriage.

But all this is difficult. In those warm countries, where is no winter brood brake, mite control is difficult. Brooding period is long and mite broduction is huge.(Argentina,NZ, South Africa, Florida...)

 

[Finman]

No, I'm trying to figure out whether it would be possible to convert from a weekend beekeeper to a monthend beekeeper (i.e. instead of doing ....

6 hives and no time to nurse them... It does not work monthly. 1000 hive owners surely would like the method how to do that once in month.

 

[ugcheleuce]

6 hives and no time to nurse them... It does not work monthly.

My problem is not time, but distance (and thus also: travel costs).

 

[ugcheleuce]

Your remark about treatmentless colonies perhaps needs expanding upon for the benefit of those suggesting not treating for varroa?

The thing with varroa is that if you believe the graphs, you should be able to see some natural mite drop in the months preceding the autumn treatment, but I saw zero mites drop in the preceding months. Only in the week or so before I started the autumn treatment did I see any mites (but the count was high -- more than 50 per week), and after I started the treatment, the mites dropped in their hundreds.

I've removed the treatment about two weeks ago already, and the mites are still dropping (I reckon at a rate of more than 100 a week). So I was caught unawares due to the incorrect impression that I got from the graphs -- I thought that mite drop would be evenly exponential, starting from a low number and then working its way up to high numbers.

This experience makes me question the value of keeping track of mite drops. One might as well simply build two or three treatments into your year anyway.

However, one reason why I did not treat earlier in the year is because I was told that mite treatment while there is closed brood is essentially a waste of time, and I did not experience a "standardised" bee year this year. It's all fine and well to say "do X at month Y" or "do X after event Z" but that only works for large colonies that grow fast and behave like the books say. This is why I'm considering options for varroa treatment regardless of hive state, even if it means treating every second month.

 

[Teemore]

I was taught the Summer requires weekly review, not always inspections per se, as the swarm goes out on the 8th day as the QC is capped.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry Marton - that's not always true. A colony can and will swarm long before a QC is capped.

 

[Finman]

My problem is not time, but distance (and thus also: travel costs).

I have 150 km from my capital city home to hives. But still, you cannot nurse them monthly. And has been 45 years. Only what you can do is to buy petrol.

 

[ugcheleuce]

I have 150 km from my capital city home to hives. But still, you cannot nurse them monthly. Only what you can do is to buy petrol.

I'm a hobby beekeeper, so I get no income from the hives. And the biggest cost of the hobby turned out to be... petrol.

 

[The Drone Ranger]

Ugcheleuce.
A thymol course of treatment takes a month and this covers the hatching mites as well as the ones outside cells.
Approx 70% kill is often quoted.

Oxalic acid relies on all the mites being exposed in a short time so needs broodless conditions to be effective.
Often quoted as 90% effective.