Buoyant roadside honey sales since lockdown

[Repwoc]

perception is that if it doesn't have teh word "Raw " in the title something must have changed it

I believe that IS the message that the sellers of raw honey are trying to convey.

We need to get back to the correct legal description.

As defined in the honey regulations?

 

[enrico]

As I say

I think the point is by adding whatever words you want to use to the reserved terms, avalible at this address Labelling honey and the law - InBrief.co.uk
Just undermines all the hard work that has been done by hardworking beekeepers and resellers of honey over the years, the public's perception is that if it doesn't have teh word "Raw " in the title something must have changed it!
We need to get back to the correct legal description.

I do not use the words raw or pure on my main label which has all the legal information, only on my own descriptive label as already posted so....... How does that fit in?

 

[ericbeaumont]

permits additional descriptive words to describe the quality of the honey. This is the part of the regulations which I believe allows the use of "raw" and "pure" and possibly other words although I can't actually think of any that are more suitable.

The Food Standards Authority document Criteria for the terms Pure, Natural, etc in food labelling would agree with you, Paul, although I reckon that the general introductory guidance on pages 4 & 5 is as relevant to beekeepers contemplating the use of raw, pure, or natural:

where a claim is potentially ambiguous or imprecise, the likely understanding of an average consumer should prevail and if consumer and trader interests conflict, the interests of consumers must take precedence.

In a parallel thread Is Chinese honey legally honey? we find that the honey packers Rowse describe their products with the cosy description Over 80 years of pure and natural honey, although they import from everywhere including China, which has a history of producing impure and unnatural honey.

Sharing the same descriptive bed is Enrico, who also uses pure and natural to describe his honey. In which supplier is the consumer to have faith, and which trader will misconfuse the consumer?

This is our choice: (1) Use descriptive words because of legal entitlement or (2) resist the easy temptation to sleep with the Beast of Confusion.

 

[enrico]

The Food Standards Authority document Criteria for the terms Pure, Natural, etc in food labelling would agree with you, Paul, although I reckon that the general introductory guidance on pages 4 & 5 is as relevant to beekeepers contemplating the use of raw, pure, or natural:

where a claim is potentially ambiguous or imprecise, the likely understanding of an average consumer should prevail and if consumer and trader interests conflict, the interests of consumers must take precedence.

In a parallel thread Is Chinese honey legally honey? we find that the honey packers Rowse describe their products with the cosy description Over 80 years of pure and natural honey, although they import from everywhere including China, which has a history of producing impure and unnatural honey.

Sharing the same descriptive bed is Enrico, who also uses pure and natural to describe his honey. In which supplier is the consumer to have faith, and which trader will misconfuse the consumer?

This is our choice: (1) Use descriptive words because of legal entitlement or (2) resist the easy temptation to sleep with the Beast of Confusion.

But the whole point is one may be lying where the other may not!! If I believe what I say is true then I should be allowed to say it, it only becomes wrong if you are speaking an untruth about your product.

 

[StephenT]

Just sold our first ever jars of honey A guy comes into my wife’s pharmacy and asks whether it is really local and pure etc. My wife showed him some photos of the hives in our garden and us extracting it. He bought 2 jars, went home tried some and then came back and bought another two. £8 for 340g. Small contribution towards a great hobby. Shame we’ve only got about 30 jars to sell.

 

[ericbeaumont]

But the whole point is one may be lying where the other may not!! If I believe what I say is true then I should be allowed to say it

True, but you've chosen to walk down the road of confusion.

Descriptives do not have to be used simply because we have the freedom to do so, especially as the use of them will impact on the wider perception of local honey up and down the land.

Forgive the impertinence, but here goes:

Somerset Wetlands Honey is harvested from my hives in the small village of Lovely, Somerset. The flora is varied and includes wild flowers, trees, and crops grown in the area. Nectar from different seasonal flowers produces unique flavours and colours in each honey harvest.

This honey is extracted, cold-strained and bottled in Lovely, Somerset.

Honey may in time cloud and set, but this natural process will not affect the taste or shelf-life in any way. Fine specks visible in the honey are grains of pollen that make up the body and taste of a particular crop.

Honey is best stored at room temperature in a dry cupboard with the lid firmly closed.

By telling your story of your honey you have established that it is proper local produce and that is what will sell it. Extra descriptives are superfluous and whether you dispute that they may confuse, the reality is that they're tired, meaningless words used by every mainstream fiddler of food you'll find in a shop. Why do you want to get in bed with them?

 

[Repwoc]

Rowse describe their products with the cosy description Over 80 years of pure and natural honey, although they import from everywhere including China, which has a history of producing impure and unnatural honey.

I imagine that many if not most consumers are unaware of the history of Chinese honey and/or that Rowse imports from China. If that is the case then there won't be any confusion, just two vendors that claim to supply pure and natural honey. Inevitably, price will then be the deciding factor since that will seem to the consumer to be the only differentiator.

I guess that TS hasn't tackled Rowse on it's claim that its honey is pure and natural, or they haven't been able to prove otherwise, or it's easier to harass smaller and hobby local producers instead.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I guess that TS hasn't tackled Rowse on it's claim that its honey is pure and natural, or they haven't been able to prove otherwise, or it's easier to harass smaller and hobby local producers instead.

TS have a jar I bought from a local supermarket. They have bolstered any possible action by taking an official jar themselves. I have been informed that there is a case to prosecute but that a big supermarket has the resources to challenge an NMR result. So they are waiting to organise a foolproof test which is in the offing. Something else. I was told but didn’t catch it properly and I’ve now forgotten.

 

[enrico]

True, but you've chosen to walk down the road of confusion.

Descriptives do not have to be used simply because we have the freedom to do so, especially as the use of them will impact on the wider perception of local honey up and down the land.

Forgive the impertinence, but here goes:

Somerset Wetlands Honey is harvested from my hives in the small village of Lovely, Somerset. The flora is varied and includes wild flowers, trees, and crops grown in the area. Nectar from different seasonal flowers produces unique flavours and colours in each honey harvest.

This honey is extracted, cold-strained and bottled in Lovely, Somerset.

Honey may in time cloud and set, but this natural process will not affect the taste or shelf-life in any way. Fine specks visible in the honey are grains of pollen that make up the body and taste of a particular crop.

Honey is best stored at room temperature in a dry cupboard with the lid firmly closed.

By telling your story of your honey you have established that it is proper local produce and that is what will sell it. Extra descriptives are superfluous and whether you dispute that they may confuse, the reality is that they're tired, meaningless words used by every mainstream fiddler of food you'll find in a shop. Why do you want to get in bed with them?

Ah,but then would I get the customer who comes back for my honey because he knows it is raw
It is a little like calling Somerset lovely, does that mean that Surrey is not!!!!!!
E

 

[ericbeaumont]

Ah,but then would I get the customer who comes back for my honey because he knows it is raw
It is a little like calling Somerset lovely, does that mean that Surrey is not!!!!!!
E

You'll have to insert the real village name, Eric, which for all I know may be Bog Standard, Somerset.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You two need to start another thread just for yourselves. We could all watch it like a tennis match

 

[Curly green finger's]

You two need to start another thread just for yourselves. We could all watch it like a tennis match

View attachment 21681

Being as there wasn't any Wimbledon.

 

[Antipodes]

You two need to start another thread just for yourselves. We could all watch it like a tennis match

Dani, if you get someone else to join you it could be mixed doubles

 

[Erichalfbee]

Dani, if you get someone else to join you it could be mixed doubles

Now who shall I play with?
Eric or Eric hmmmmmm
On second thoughts I’d rather just watch.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You two need to start another thread just for yourselves. We could all watch it like a tennis match

 

[Repwoc]

a big supermarket has the resources to challenge an NMR result

In my experience of using NMR (for chemical structure determination, not honey analysis) it is difficult to argue with the results. Any ambiguity was invariably resolved by running further NMR experiments.

 

[Repwoc]

So they are waiting to organise a foolproof test which is in the offing

Did they mention any time frame for this test, Dani?

 

[enrico]

View attachment 21682

Ok own up where did you get that photo of me when I was young!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Did they mention any time frame for this test, Dani?

They said they would let me know later this year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

In my experience of using NMR (for chemical structure determination, not honey analysis) it is difficult to argue with the results. Any ambiguity was invariably resolved by running further NMR experiments.

Maybe but a supermarket with all its resources against a little welsh trading standards office? The chap told me that they could make holes in the analysis and something irrefutable was in the pipeline.