Building a Masie's WBC

[Der Alte Fritz]

Am going to start with the Brood box (5 to make) and was considering screwing it together to make it a bit stronger.

Notice with the Masies design that they only have one piece of wood as the bottom rail (square cross section) so that there is not 6mm gap at the bottom? Or have I got this wrong?

 

[oliver90owner]

Or have I got this wrong?

Probably. Don't need it at the bottom of the brood.

Would on double brood (for the second box), but (historically?) the usual way to go with WBCs was brood and a half...

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Yes this is planned to be double brood.

 

[oliver90owner]

I daresay you will likely need extra lifts to accommodatea double broods. The normally supplied will likely just be a tad too short. Good fun, though?

 

[Luminos]

I daresay you will likely need extra lifts to accommodatea double broods. The normally supplied will likely just be a tad too short. Good fun, though?

One of the colonies I bought this year was a WBC on double brood

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Each hive has 5 lifts which should be enough for double brood and 2 supers.

Having measured the sides, I can see that to get a 1/4" gap at the bottom and the 7/16" gap at the top and allowing for the metal runners, I will need to remove 1/4" from the height of the side.

 

[Travelator]

The WBC design expects the walls of the box above to sit directly on the lugs of the box below. There's no beespace and everything can (and will) get stuck together. (NB - there is, of course, a beespace between the bottom bars of the frames and the top bars of the box below).

If you wanted to rectify the design, you would indeed need to trim the wall by 1 beespace, but you would also need to construct a proper bottom rail with a rebate in it.

 

[oliver90owner]

Double brood and only expecting two supers?

Must be expecting another year like this one?

You may just be OK for three, but doubtful, knowing the tighter tolerances of things made these days...

 

[Tom Bick]

Yes I think you want to think in the region of four supers, this will give you more options and breathing space.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

If you wanted to rectify the design, you would indeed need to trim the wall by 1 beespace, but you would also need to construct a proper bottom rail with a rebate in it.

In your experience is this worth doing? It would be quite simple to add another rail to duplicate the top arrangement. The weight of the boxes would then be on the side walls and on these rails.

 

[oliver90owner]

I will need to remove 1/4" from the height of the side.

I cannot see the point in reducing the box height. Shirley, they are not over-sized in the first place? Would that be the suppliers leaving a bee space at the top and bottom?

I think this whole thing needs thinking out properly. Nothing adds up now - and likely nothing will add up later - if this carries on as it is at the present.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Shirley the design of the box does not use rebated rails like a national requires

The bee space is created as the frames are 1/4" less deep than the sides

The bees space over frame ends is zero in the standard WBC design but then even in a national the bee space on with a plastic or galvanised queen excluder is also zero. Bees space at zero works just don't get propolis ing bees like italians

 

[oliver90owner]

Ahh, I'm with you - I think. He is meaning the 'end' walls as side walls as opposed to sides of the box. I always called the end walls the ones where the frame ends were and the side walls the walls alongside the end frame. Of course all four-sided boxes have four sides. Now, are the end rails (on a National box) on the side walls or the end wall? I'm not going to bother to check.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Yes the end walls.

So there are two issues here:
1) Maisemore$ use a curved wooden top to the end wall to produce the frame runner. In a previous thread it was advised to remove this and to replace with a metal runner. Currently if I fit the end wall to the bottom of the box it is too short and gives me more than a 7/16th at the top. Not to worry as with metal runners fitted it is slightly too long. But hence my confusion.

2) Maisemore$ use standard WBC construction in that the bottom of the end wall and the single square rail both sit on top of the ends of the frames. The extra piece of wood at the top provides the handhold and seals the end of the rails from the outside world. However the Beesource plans for a WBC show an alternative arrangment where an extra bottom rail is added (a duplicate of the top rails arrangement) which would allow you to raise the end wall and its supporting batten so creating a beespace. This does not affect the height between the frames as the box remains the same size, just the end wall is shortened and an extra piece of wood added to close off the end to the outside.

Since I am now committed to a bit of woodwork (by fitting the metal runners) this change would simply mean buying an extra piece of wood.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

So what I am proposing is to change frame runner marked 'B' into the one marked 'A' which will require some cutting, say 1/8th".

And possibly to convert bottom of box into the version shown as C (in both diagrams) and means that the weight of the box is carried by the ends on the two outside battens and on the front and back by the box walls.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I assume it would decrease propolising and if you have italians bees or other propolising bees then it would definitely help.

However the EH Taylor of Welwyn WBC Super i use as a shed tidy is of the maisey style and that dates from the 1950s/60s

zero or 1/4" beespace works, so long as you dont mix

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

I assume it would decrease propolising and if you have italians bees or other propolising bees then it would definitely help.

However the EH Taylor of Welwyn WBC Super i use as a shed tidy is of the maisey style and that dates from the 1950s/60s

zero or 1/4" beespace works, so long as you dont mix

Mine are a sticky lot so I think I will add a 1/4" beespace at the ends, it is only a small extra bit of timber and I have to do the cutting anyway.

Any advice on cutting Red Cedar or on how to do this given that I do not have a band saw.

 

[Travelator]

That's very interesting - the Beesource design includes the modification that I was trying to describe.

I haven't tried that design myself, but I do think it would probably be a big improvement on the plain WBC design (with no bottom rebate). *Not* simply because it would cut down on propolis problems (although I think it certainly would), but more importantly because it would significantly increase the chances of the join between two boxes actually being beetight.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

The first test box hs been completed in a dry run (no gluing and using screws in the corners.) It worked out very well and the frames are hanging on their metal runners a beespace off my flat surface and with a beespace rebate over the frame ends.

My only problem is that the box has a slight twist. Can Muswell Hill or someone recommend how to get rid of this. The twist is worse on the actual WBC floor rather than my flat surface so I imagine the floor is slightly out as well.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

So here is the finished box, showing the extra 'pale' bit of wood added at the bottom of the end and then an inside view or two showing the beespace created. Sorry the last picture is out of focus but you get the idea.