Buckfast or Carnica ... Which to choose?

[Grif]

With the Carnica's ... Would the use of 3 brood boxes, thus giving more space, help with their tendency to make QCs??

 

[Finman]

With the Carnica's ... Would the use of 3 brood boxes, thus giving more space, help with their tendency to make QCs??

No. It does not help. Inside Carnica race there are very swarmy and less swarmy strains.

I use 3 brood boxes and no excluder and I have had 10 years Carniolans.
Now I have had a big broblem because my queens got too much forest Carniolan semen.

.

 

[B+.]

With the Carnica's ... Would the use of 3 brood boxes, thus giving more space, help with their tendency to make QCs??

Three National deeps would have about the same capacity as a double Langstroth. Prolific queens need a lot of space or they will be overcrowded. One of the things that leads to swarming is overcrowding.

I think you can draw your own conclusions: any prolific queen would swarm if kept in an area that is too small

 

[Hawklord]

I have a couple of colonies headed by Buckfast queens, but might try purchasing some Carnica queens to put into some new hives.

And that is where it goes wrong, too many imports with the try this attitude. So you've already pumped some buckfast drones into your area and now want to do the same with carnis. I would presume that we would all produce queens for the same traits, so what's the problem with doing that from local stock, eventually we would all get decent results.

 

[Hawklord]

This is what Carniolans look like

There are 2 bees in the photo that don't look the same as the others, is this an indication that the queen is not pure? Sorry couldn't put link in its post 55.

 

[Finman]

I made a note in 2014 when setting out my plans for queen rearing:

"QUEEN PLAN 2014

OBJECTIVE:
to remove all Carniolan stock by requeening with Buckfast..

PREAMBLE

Too many swarmy or old queens so I need to replace the following Queens"



Say no more..

This summer I used 2 days to renew my plan. First I thought that I rear own new queens from non swarmy Italian hive (got from friend). Problem was that drones have swarmy genes.

Plan B: I bought mated Italian queens to half of yard. So I avoid swarmy drones. Queen seller has 1500 hives. Afford to select good parent hives.

.... I hate Carniolans, they ruined my hives during last two years....swarmy

.

 

[Finman]

I think you can draw your own conclusions: any prolific queen would swarm if kept in an area that is too small

Basic rule in beekeeping: Add room when colony grows

Basic rule: Big hives swarm first

But every hive will swarm if you not give enough space to bees or to honey.
Impossble to prevent swarming if hive's instinct of swarming is normal.

 

[Thymallus]

so what's the problem with doing that from local stock, eventually we would all get decent results.

The usual..... Talking to a beekeeper at Pickering Farmers market today,he has just bought some carnica as his "recommended" local bees became too nasty for him and his kids to handle. Fine as a nuc, but unmanageable as they expanded.
He is astounded by the difference the carnica have made.
You will not get universally decent stock from local bees until all beekeepers are educated into rearing from their best queens. Most are so ignorant they don't even know there are different types of bees let alone what they are using are known as local mongrels. Talking about breeding is like you come from a different planet, bees swarm end of story!
Having a stall selling honey they drawn like magnets. so I get to talk to a lot of them and am staggered by the general incompetence and ignorance.
Maybe we should simply get rid of the local bees and use some decent stock?

 

[B+.]

And that is where it goes wrong, too many imports with the try this attitude. So you've already pumped some buckfast drones into your area and now want to do the same with carnis.

Personally, I would rather have a Carniolan OR a Buckfast from a reputable breeder than one of the unproductive, stinging, swarming mongrels most people on here seem to have

 

[Finman]

.
Surroundings are so full of hives that do not sacrify your 2 hives when you try "pump drones to air" . Stupid idea really. At least it is a miserable joke.

Wild nests have 25% drone cells.

 

[Finman]

Personally, I would rather have a Carniolan OR a Buckfast from a reputable breeder than one of the unproductive, stinging, swarming mongrels most people on here seem to have

Nonselected bees. That is the purpose?

Nature selects swarming and stinging.

.

 

[B+.]

2 bees in the photo that don't look the same as the others, is this an indication that the queen is not pure?

That queen had recently been introduced into the nuc. She is an island mated pure Carniolan (which I still have). Its not unusual to find a few drifters in a nuc in late July. Open any colony up now and see how long it is before you have company ;-)

 

[B+.]

Nature selects swarming and stinging.

I agree that every creature has to defend itself in a competitive environment but who wants those bees? Swarming and stinging are traits that can be reduced through selective breeding. Unfortunately, most beginners don't have the knowledge or the means to do this