Brood nest size most commonly used in the UK

[user 6228]

Buy a book I suggest thermodynamics for dummies. Thermodynamics applies to all things in the universe from microbes to planets. A hive in winter is box that processes pollen and sugar into meat, water, carbon dioxide and heat. In that process energy must be conserved, regardless of the method or the detail.

 

[maddydog]

It isn't, I reduced the mesh area in all my floors and the mesh was already reduced in size due to the porch area of the under floor entrance. The mesh only covers the central area of the floors.

And have you noticed any advantage or drawbacks? I too use underfloor entrances, I'm going to narrow the entrance slot to maybe 10cm linear using 9mm ply as I believe an entrance slot nearly the full width of the hives OTT.

 

[maddydog]

I have outside main yield an entrance which is 1 x 15 cm = 15 cm2 plus two1,5 cm diameter upper entrance.

I look the need of ventilationg from number of ventilating bees.


So you intend to have 3 fold ventilation opening and you think that it is small.


I have in those hives 5-7 langstroth boxes. I do not have 4 box hives because I unite them to each other for main yield.

I'm reducing the entrance to 9cm2 and the floor mesh to 50cm. Not so different in area to yours. All the (intentional) ventilation is at the floor of the hive so to leave plenty of warm air in the upper reaches. If the bees decide to change this then they have the capability.

If we could leave aside the venom in this thread that would be great because it sure beats another one about feeding

 

[Finman]

40 000 bees in a week means 6000 eggs in a day, when practical number is 500 eggs.

 

[For want of a better word]

A lot would agree with you there.

+1







nos da

 

[user 6228]

40 000 bees in a week means 6000 eggs in a day, when practical number is 500 eggs.

So we are talking less than 350 g per week ... You are missing a lot of energy if 4kg of stores ends up as 0.35kg of bee meat. Do you know where it went?

 

[Finman]

In biology it is efficient animal which can change 30% of its food to edible food to human.

If you feed back a crystallized box of honey to the hive, it is well done if half of that honey will be stored into super.

When a feeder bee make food milk to the larva, it is usually calculated so that how much protein the bee eates and how much protein is stored into adult larva.

Then during 2 week pupa time a larva looses 1/3 of its weigh.

After emerging a bee eates lots of pollen 3 days that it is full grown feeder bee and capable do its duty.

it is not energy flow. It is much more poo flow.

So, it is compilated system, what we do not need to know when we add new room to the growing colony.

.99% out of beekeepers think that bees grow with sugar feeding and 99% has such opinion that protein feeding does not help... draw from that.

 

[Fusion_power]

There is an old formula for bees that is reasonably accurate. Two frames of honey plus 1 frame of pollen equals 1 frame of bees. Finman's 30% efficiency is reasonable accurate.

Pollen is a much less concentrated form of protein than a bee's body. Most pollen has protein content between 15% and 30%. Some pollen such as maize is deficient in lysine, tryptophan, and methionine which means bees need other pollen sources to efficiently rear brood.

Follow the energy which is in the form C6H12O6 aka sugar and find that most of it is expended in heating the brood and in metabolizing pollen into digestible protein and then into bees.

So Derekm, one part of your position is based on conservation of energy, but with bees, nearly 100% of the honey they consume is converted to heat with a bit of surplus water.

As an aside, I bred a high methionine high lysine maize a few years ago. When fed to chickens, it increased egg laying by 10%. This is not significant except that it proves the commercial egg laying feed I give my chickens is deficient in protein and possibly starch.

 

[Finman]

So we are talking less than 350 g per week ... You are missing a lot of energy if 4kg of stores ends up as 0.35kg of bee meat. Do you know where it went?

When a 2 box colony has brood in spring, it consumes 500 g food in a day.
Protein patty the hive consumes about 500 g per week. Patty has sugar 50%..

Not 350 g in a week

7 x 0.5 kg is about 4 kg in a week. So say balance hives.

in Autumn, when the colony does not have brood, it consumes in polyhive 1.5-2 kg in a month, when weathers are 0 to +5C.



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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can someone pass the rootbeer please

 

[Swarm]

How to ruin a thread, yet again. Why do we need this thermal BS in every thread?

 

[chrisb]

How to ruin a thread, yet again. Why do we need this thermal BS in every thread?

Ill second that,

 

[Finman]

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Brood nest size has never been a problem, if not a queen has not been a poor layer.

Put a terrarium heater, if thermology does not work.
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[B+.]

Can someone pass the rootbeer please

 

[B+.]

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Put a terrarium heater, if thermology does not work.
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As has frequently been pointed out, we haven't had a proper winter for several years. Polyhives are available to those who want them. When is enough, enough?

 

[Swarm]

I think bees have evolved to deal with our winters, even the proper ones. Why else would they stick around?

 

[Finman]

As has frequently been pointed out, we haven't had a proper winter for several years. Polyhives are available to those who want them. When is enough, enough?

Use heaters in summer. Your winters are warm enough.

I have always pointed out, that I do not use heaters in winter




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[Quis Custodiet]

I have Paradise Honey boxes, because company is very near me. ....................................................................................Swedish Nacka. Their wall is 2 cm thick and in Finnish hives wall is 4 cm. Boath wall thickness works in our climate.
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Look at the hand holds they will create thin spots and if they are as deep as they look,.............................................................
http://doi.org/10.1007/s00484-015-1057-z

Thank you both for your replies, you have given me much on which to reflect.

 

[Finman]

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4 cm poly wall is only few years old phenomenom.

2 cm Nacka wall has been used 30 years, and bees have been nursed in them in coldest parts of beekeeping zone. My 30 years experience is that they are good. But if I get double thick box with same money, of course I take thick.

One alternative is insulated ply box hive. Its has double ply made from water proof 3 mm ply board. Then between walls 3-4 cm stone wool, glass wool or saw dust or something.

Double wall made from wooden board is terribly heavy. Box filled with honey is over 50 kg.
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Those who use medium boxes as brood boxes, they winter the bees in thinner boxes. Wall in mediums are curved. No problems with them.
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[Finman]

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I looked in the darkness my wintering hives. Half of them have 2 cm poly wall. They are old Nacka hives and Paradise Honey's super mediums.

No problems. Theoretic problem arouse when companies started to make thicker and better walls.

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