Box for bait hives.

[Cyfareddol]

I have bees in Warre hives with and without frames and British National hives. I sometimes collect swarms in nearby bait hives which are of the usual construction with eight frames.
I understand that Warre hives are a better approximation of the size and shape of the cavity chosen by wild bees and I have found that an empty Warre is soon occupied. I have read that bees hived in a single box Warre will frequently abscond because the space is too small.
It seems to me that if I want to attract more swarms to bait hives with B. National frames there should be a bigger cavity, perhaps created by putting an empty box beneath.
Does this make sense?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think 40 Litres is the volume usually bandied about.
There is some warre bait hive stuff here
http://www.dheaf.plus.com/warrebeekeeping/bait_hives.htm

 

[REDWOOD]

8 frame 14x12 box is bigger than a national BB

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

 

[dn170221]

P@yne$ Nuc with the eke worked for me last year, two swarms in three weeks!
Like stated above roughly 40 litres seems good, with some old empty used comb if you have any spare ( I also put a few drops of lemongrass oil once or twice a week to the top of the frames) No honey in the comb though.

 

[itma]

I have bees in Warre hives with and without frames and British National hives. I sometimes collect swarms in nearby bait hives which are of the usual construction with eight frames.
I understand that Warre hives are a better approximation of the size and shape of the cavity chosen by wild bees and I have found that an empty Warre is soon occupied. I have read that bees hived in a single box Warre will frequently abscond because the space is too small.
It seems to me that if I want to attract more swarms to bait hives with B. National frames there should be a bigger cavity, perhaps created by putting an empty box beneath.
Does this make sense?

Welcome to the forum.

The accepted wisdom is that swarms are looking for a cavity of approx 40 litres - see Seeley's book "Honeybee Democracy".
Not too sure that the shape makes much difference to the bees - but you'd need at least a couple of Warré boxes to get close to 40 litres internal.

However, 40 litres does just happens to be almost exactly the size of a standard (DN) National brood box + floorspace + coverboard beespace.
Old comb is attractive to swarms.
Frames/topbars in the bait hive are there for your convenience in moving the bees on to their permanent home! (The box doesn't need to be fully equipped.)

 

[Cyfareddol]

Thank you to all respondents.

 

[mbc]

I've not done the brilliant and extensive research Dr Tom Seeley has done, but I would hazard an educated guess that swarms of amm bees would choose a slightly smaller cavity than the oft quoted optimum 40l Dr Seeley found for mostly ligurian bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have a five frame ply 14 x 12 that attracted two swarms last year.

 

[Bee Bob Delux]

I'm just starting to prepare 2 Warre swarm traps for later use from a redundant hive(lost) this winter.

@30x30x21cm x2 = 3.78l I would say is about as good as it gets for me.

I have a spare national nuc & I just realised from this thread I could also use that as well!

I would need to make an eke of some sort. Thanks for the prompt!

BBD

 

[ugcheleuce]

The accepted wisdom is that swarms are looking for a cavity of approx 40 litres - see Seeley's book "Honeybee Democracy".

Yes, the relevant portion is:

...the swarms demonstrated preferences in the following nest-site variables: entrance size, entrance direction, entrance height above the ground, entrance height above the cavity floor, cavity volume, and presence of combs in the cavity. The bees had revealed to me that they prefer a nest entrance that is rather small, faces south, is high of the ground, and opens into the bottom of the nest cavity. ... The pattern of nest-box occupations by swarms also showed clearly that the bees avoid cavities smaller than 10 liters or greater than 100 liters, and that they very much like 40-liter cavities (about the size of a wastebasket), especially ones already equipped with combs. ... The nest-site properties for which I detected no preference were entrance shape, cavity shape, cavity draftiness, and cavity dryness. Honeybees probably prefer tight and dry nest cavities, but because a colony can caulk with tree resins any cracks and crevices that let in drafts and water, the nest-site scouts apparently do not pay much heed to these properties. In contrast, a colony cannot modify the volume of a nest cavity, the height of its entrance, or the direction in which it faces, so to get a homesite that meets its needs in these properties the nest-site scouts must pay close attention to these properties when evaluating prospective nest sites.