Boiling Frames

[pargyle]

I've got a few frames that were infested by wax moth over winter .. I've cut out the infested comb (what was left of it) and burnt it and I'm left with some perfectly serviceable frames but I'd rather like to make sure they are perfectly clean before re-using them. (I'm foundationless so I don't need to put fresh foundation in them - indeed they have a modified top bar so can't be used with foundation).

Normally I would just melt down any old frames in my solar wax melter and re-use them, the termperatures reached in the wax melter is sufficient to sterlise them. But I can only do one frame at a time in the wax melter.

I've been given an old Burco Boiler which works fine and will boil water. I can fit two or three frames in at a time so it should be quite quick to give the frames a clean and sterilise.

It's something I've not done before ... anyone got any tips or hints before I set about it and make a tit of myself ?

Do you frame boilers just use water or do you add anything ?

How long does it take per batch ?

Anything else I need to know ?

 

[Curly green fingers]

I've got a few frames that were infested by wax moth over winter .. I've cut out the infested comb (what was left of it) and burnt it and I'm left with some perfectly serviceable frames but I'd rather like to make sure they are perfectly clean before re-using them. (I'm foundationless so I don't need to put fresh foundation in them - indeed they have a modified top bar so can't be used with foundation).

Normally I would just melt down any old frames in my solar wax melter and re-use them, the termperatures reached in the wax melter is sufficient to sterlise them. But I can only do one frame at a time in the wax melter.

I've been given an old Burco Boiler which works fine and will boil water. I can fit two or three frames in at a time so it should be quite quick to give the frames a clean and sterilise.

It's something I've not done before ... anyone got any tips or hints before I set about it and make a tit of myself ?

Do you frame boilers just use water or do you add anything ?

How long does it take per batch ?

Anything else I need to know ?

Hi I use a kilo bag of washing soda to 10 litres of water.
I make sure I do it out side on the camp stove because my wife won't let me do it in the house.
The water will be a rolling boil then put the frames in with out the wedges , wedges go in after it takes no more than half a minute to do a batch of frames.
My mentor said to put 2kgs of soda in but there's no need.

 

[Antipodes]

The thing I wonder about with boiling frames is the integrity of the glue joints (assuming it was used) ....I guess it depends on the type of glue, but could the joins be compromised I wonder?

 

[For want of a better word]

boil 10 minutes in solution of washing soda 1kg to 20 liters more or less depending on how many frames... chemical reaction of beeswax and washing soda forms soap that dissolves.... any propollis dissolves
I jetwash and then soak in 5% bleach for half an hour jetwash again and dry
Joints will need renailing

Polly hives and nucs ( but not the plastic bits!) can be cleaned in same way.

OMG... I expect the forum bully and the pedants will point out that soap is made with a wax or oil and NaOH... which is caustic soda... nasty stuff... but with any chemicals full PPE is necessary!

Chons da

Stopped raining... off to inspect !

 

[Beefriendly]

Burn the old ones and make new ones.
You will spend more time and money (boiling costs) and effort cleaning them then buying some seconds and making new ones.
They cost pennies per frame.
The old ones become good sources of kindling.

 

[Finman]

Burn the old ones and make new ones.

They cost pennies per frame.
.

No frame costs pennies. And old frame has assemling work done.

English frames into the box cost more than the poly box.

 

[pargyle]

Burn the old ones and make new ones.
You will spend more time and money (boiling costs) and effort cleaning them then buying some seconds and making new ones.
They cost pennies per frame.
The old ones become good sources of kindling.

It's a point of view, thank you .. but, the frames are foundationless, they have triangular timber starter strips already in them, they were glued and pinned with waterproof wood glue and they are wired with stainless steel wire and brass eyelets, the wires are intact.

So ... perhaps not as economical to have to make new ones if they can be restored by boiling. Seems a pity to add to the environmental impact of burning more timber that could actually be re-used. It's going to cost nothing but a few pence for the washing soda and a bit of electric ..and some of my time - which I would spend making new frames anyway.

 

[Curly green fingers]

It's a point of view, thank you .. but, the frames are foundationless, they have triangular timber starter strips already in them, they were glued and pinned with waterproof wood glue and they are wired with stainless steel wire and brass eyelets, the wires are intact.

So ... perhaps not as economical to have to make new ones if they can be restored by boiling. Seems a pity to add to the environmental impact of burning more timber that could actually be re-used. It's going to cost nothing but a few pence for the washing soda and a bit of electric ..and some of my time - which I would spend making new frames anyway.

I've found that there's been no frames come apart even some of the old frames of my grandads that were just nailed together .
I was concerned about them warping in the heat of the boiling mixture but they seem to be good.
If you plan to do it try a sample and see how you get on good luck.

 

[ASPIRERITE]

Just use a heat gun and avoid the joints then freeze em dip em in a cheap vodka put em in boxes and let them dry. You will have fried pissed wax moth or dead ones. If you don't have a chest freezer then just get them hot n pissed

 

[pargyle]

Just use a heat gun and avoid the joints then freeze em dip em in a cheap vodka put em in boxes and let them dry. You will have fried pissed wax moth or dead ones. If you don't have a chest freezer then just get them hot n pissed

Thank you for your thought provoking contribution ... I think I'd rather drink the cheap vodka and in the resultant drunken stupor forget about cleaning frames for a day or two !

Or alternatively, empty some of last years raspberries out of the chest freezer and use the Vodka to make raspberry and honey vodka liquer ! Then drink that and forget about cleaning frames for a day or two ..

 

[Millet]

If you could get hold of a old metal header tank or similar and put it over a fire in the garden you would get more frames in in one go and the heating cost would be free..

 

[pargyle]

Yep ... but it would add something else to the pile of what my wife describes as 'your junk' .. more grounds for divorce !

At least I've managed to hide the Burco in the den of secrets so she doesn't even know about if ... yet.

I have a lovely cast iron fire bowl and had the burco not arrived I was considering putting an old heavy metal dustbin on top of that and using the mass of spare timber offcuts to fuel it ...

 

[Curly green fingers]

Thank you for your thought provoking contribution ... I think I'd rather drink the cheap vodka and in the resultant drunken stupor forget about cleaning frames for a day or two !

Or alternatively, empty some of last years raspberries out of the chest freezer and use the Vodka to make raspberry and honey vodka liquer ! Then drink that and forget about cleaning frames for a day or two ..

That sounds like a very good plan either way your going to loss two days.. I would opt for the liquor I hate the taste of vodka.
I was wondering would the vodka clean the propolis of the frames ?

 

[Worldsend]

Old metal dustbin gas boiling ring

few bags of washing soda

very therapeutic afternoon

 

[pargyle]

Thank you all you frame boilers who pointed me in the right direction. Did a first batch of about 20 super frames this evening .. worked a treat. 1Kg washing soda to 6 gallons of water.

The Burco didn't actually boil, it was quite hot but not boiling. I found two frames at a time worked well, it only took a few seconds to loosen the crud and then an old washing up brush worked a treat to swoosh it off. All the propolis comes off and they come out looking like new. No damage to the joints, no sign of warping.. very satisfying.

There's some lessons learned:

1. Rubber gloves would be a good idea .. my fingers look like I smoke 80 a day !
2. Overalls or an apron might be good as well...
3. A layer of scum/wax or whatever forms on the top of the water and a sieve or a ladle to remove it would be good as it tends to attach itself to the frames as you lift them out.
4. I'm going to add a much heftier cable to the boiler and run it with a 30 amp plug straight into the 30 amp socket in the workshop I use for my welder. The 13 amp three pin plug got so hot it burnt my finger when I pulled it out .. where's RAB when you need him ?
5. I could do with a second boiler going at the same time so I could rinse the frames in clean hot water straight after cleaning them in the washing soda one. (Ok .. it's a bit of a luxury but if another free one came my way I wouldn't turn it down !).
6. I could do with a stand to sit the boiler on and something to hang the cleaned frames on.

One question ... what is the scum that forms on the top..is it wax ? If it is can I clean it in the normal way and re-use it ?

 

[drex]

After I have boiled my frames in my Burco, I too get loads of scum. When it cools it does set a bit like wax but remains a bit greasy and spongey. I should think it is starting to turn into soap ( saponification) after reacting with the soda. I manage to do about 8 frames at a time and rinse them down with hosepipe.

 

[pargyle]

I scraped the waxy stuff off the top of the water in the Burco once it had cooled. It looks a bit like the stuff left under the wax on top of the water when it has solidified after being first melted and rough filtered in my solar wax melter .. It clearly has some wax content in it... whether it's worth trying to get some wax out of it I'm not sure. When I've finished the rest of the frames I'll keep all this stuff together and filter it and see what it's like.

On a side note ... I decided to put a new cable on the Burco.. dead simple to take apart but they are so BASIC underneath ..it's a 1995 vintage and it's just a rheostat, an element and an earth point attached to the casing. Are more modern ones any more sophisticated ? It doesn't even appear to have a thermostat ? Has anyone modified one or brought it more up to date ?