Beginner cannot decide TBH or Warre, which is better please?

[Beero]

Wow, where are you buying cedar at that price please?

 

[Beero]

£90 is all-in, good quality (25mm) red cedar (not seconds ), roof, quilt box, four boxes, top bars, floor, stand, no other extras needed.

Why are the flat packs so expensive then?
Maisie's rock bottom national is £172 atm (2 supers).

My Lord where are you buying Cedar at that kind of price please?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This is very interesting, a Hyde Hive looks just like a top bar but its square and has frames though, or have i missed something here.......

What does a top bar look like? In my travels I've seen loads of different looking ones
It's a long hive - takes standard National deeps (although they're working on a hybrid now with a Jumbo brood area and a deep honey area behind.0)
The roof is on hydraulic rams for ease of lifting, unlike the Dartington hive which has supers, these work on the same principle as African top bar hives where the bees work horizontally -, entrance in one end, bees storing the honey behind the brood.

 

[Beero]

What does a top bar look like? In my travels I've seen loads of different looking ones
It's a long hive - takes standard National deeps (although they're working on a hybrid now with a Jumbo brood area and a deep honey area behind.0)
The roof is on hydraulic rams for ease of lifting, unlike the Dartington hive which has supers, these work on the same principle as African top bar hives where the bees work horizontally -, entrance in one end, bees storing the honey behind the brood.

just google top bar hive, plenty of images out there, the most common design of top bar is the Kenyan one, which is in Africa, so i guess its the same

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

just google top bar hive, plenty of images out there, the most common design of top bar is the Kenyan one, which is in Africa, so i guess its the same

Most 'Kenyan' ones I've seen in Africa look nothing like the the Hyde hives one.- the Kenyan ones were designed in England by the way - Sparsholt college, a corroborative effort between Eva Crane, Jack Treadwell and Peter David Patterson of Nairobi in 1964. The Tanzanian Top bar looks totally different again - and you have the choice of side entrance or end entrance, and let's not mention the Basutho Bee Box.
all have one thing in common though - totally flat roofs, and apart from the Kenyan one which has inward sloping sides to match the curve - the rest have parallel 'square' sides.
Some Tanzanian ones even have a separate brood chamber separated by a rudimentary queen excluder - something we're trying to discourage.

 

[Beero]

Most 'Kenyan' ones I've seen in Africa look nothing like the the Hyde hives one.- the Kenyan ones were designed in England by the way - Sparsholt college, a corroborative effort between Eva Crane, Jack Treadwell and Peter David Patterson of Nairobi in 1964. The Tanzanian Top bar looks totally different again - and you have the choice of side entrance or end entrance, and let's not mention the Basutho Bee Box.
all have one thing in common though - totally flat roofs, and apart from the Kenyan one which has inward sloping sides to match the curve - the rest have parallel 'square' sides.
Some Tanzanian ones even have a separate brood chamber separated by a rudimentary queen excluder - something we're trying to discourage.

Wow, totally fascinating, kenyan hive designed in London, who knew! will be looking into the Basutho too, thank you for this.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wow, totally fascinating, kenyan hive designed in London, who knew! will be looking into the Basutho too, thank you for this.

Designed, trialled and perfected at Sparsholt College.
Peter Patterson was over for the 1964 National Honey show at Caxton Hall when Eva and Jack approached him with the idea of an affordable moveable 'frame' hive one step up from traditional bark and log hives used by bee farmers in Africa (Eva had actually found a reference to a rudimentary woven hive with sticks for 'top bars' during her archaeological research) he then worked with John Cosburn on the prototype top bar hive, then with assistance from the Canadian International Development agency he was encouraged by Jimmy Betts of Oxfam Kenya to to set up the Oxfam's Kenya Beekeeping Pilot project: The only reason really it was given the 'Kenyan Top Bar Hive' label.
as for the Basutho Bee Box - doubt you'll find much material on that - it was just the name given by my beekeeping group In Ha Makhate in the Maluti mountains to our efforts in converting a stack of old pallets and a box of rusty nails into usable beehives using one hammer, a crowbar, a broken screwdriver and a handsaw.

 

[Newbeeneil]

My Lord where are you buying Cedar at that kind of price please?

If you are prepared to buy cedar straight from the sawmill, season it and finish it you can pick it up for less than £20/cu ft

 

[bingevader]

My Lord where are you buying Cedar at that kind of price please?

Pontrilas Timber, Hereford.
In fact, looking at the bill, from the year before last, wood for two hives was £130.

 

[Beero]

Pontrilas Timber, Hereford.
In fact, looking at the bill, from the year before last, wood for two hives was £130.

Happy Days, i'm a little to far from Hereford mind

 

[Newbeeneil]

Just worked out the cost of timber for a hive. About £40.
Roof steel £8, varroa mesh £4. Castellations £6. Stainless screws etc. £1.
Never really added it up before but £60 isn't bad for a hive with 2 supers .
Now what about the labour..............

 

[madasafish]

Just worked out the cost of timber for a hive. About £40.
Roof steel £8, varroa mesh £4. Castellations £6. Stainless screws etc. £1.
Never really added it up before but £60 isn't bad for a hive with 2 supers .
Now what about the labour..............

Using good grade pallet wood reduces the wood cost from £40 to around £5 ,but adds extra work. End result looks fine for £20...

 

[Newbeeneil]

Using good grade pallet wood reduces the wood cost from £40 to around £5 ,but adds extra work. End result looks fine for £20...

I prefer my hives to resemble proper cedar hives which will last 20+years but I do have some bait hives made from pallets.