Bees on the bottom of varroa mesh

[telford_keeper]

I have only had my bees for a couple of days and was wondering if it was normal behaviour if they squeeze through the varroa floor.
Is this a sign of too little/ too much bottom space??

I don't want to disturb them until they have had about 5 days to settle into their new place, and I have noticed that they are starting to leave in higher numbers and come back with pollen and propolis, which is a good sign.

What are your thoughts and reassurances

 

[John M]

Hi

I am really new too so you may want to wait for a more experienced voice.

When I first rehived, they tended to arrive back to the hive and try to get in through the mesh floor; I assume this is because it smells more strongly of home than does the small entrance. This reduced to virtually none in very few days.

Also, when the weather is bad, having them all line up at the entrance and for the floor to appear fairly well covered (from above) has not been unusual.

John

 

[BBG]

It's good to hear that somebody is using their Open Mesh Floor (It's not a varroa floor or varroa mesh, it was originally designed for ventilation of the hive and proved highly beneficial when used correctly as MAFF intended) correctly and not leaving the varroa tray in permanently as many experienced beekeepers do.

How small is your entrance.

As you are concerned to do right by your bees, here's a small snippet of very important information"

http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/kenhomf.html

In Europe OMF is used throughout -35 degree winters.

 

[Mike a]

I have only had my bees for a couple of days and was wondering if it was normal behaviour if they squeeze through the varroa floor.
Is this a sign of too little/ too much bottom space??

Welcome telford_keeper

No its not normal, the mesh floor should not be large enough for a bee to squeeze through. Sounds like who ever you got the hive from didn't use the right size mesh.

Are they in a nuc small box 4-5 frames or a large box with 10-11 frames?

If a bee can squeeze though then its possible wasps or other bees could do the same and rob your bees of their honey. If possible could you take a picture and post it on here. Its not fatal so don't panic your bees will be fine but the sooner its dealt with the better.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are they squeezing through, have you seen them, or are they just hanging about underneath the floor?

 

[oliver90owner]

Is this a sign of too little/ too much bottom space??

Nothing to do with that.

Tell us the origin of your bees. Were they a swarm? Are the bees clustering under there? It may be pertinent. The queen could be under there, if unlucky.

Bottom bee space in my Nationals (at the floor) is about 20mm - it has sometimes been less (when solid floors were still in use) and is not really important unless well over 30mm, when they may build wild comb under the frames.

Typical mesh for floors has an aperture of about 3mm, the expanded steel mesh being a little larger. Wasps should not be able to easily pass through (I have a couple where small wasps have managed to squeeze through, just a few of the holes, into a box with frames (but not with defending bees). I am still using them as floors but have changed to wire mesh floors now.

Regards, RAB

 

[user 6228]

I have only had my bees for a couple of days and was wondering if it was normal behaviour if they squeeze through the varroa floor.
Is this a sign of too little/ too much bottom space??

I don't want to disturb them until they have had about 5 days to settle into their new place, and I have noticed that they are starting to leave in higher numbers and come back with pollen and propolis, which is a good sign.

What are your thoughts and reassurances

Clustering under the floor at first seems to be normal. This will be a problem if the weather turns cold. probably not an issue at this time of year. As I had my nuc arrive much earlier in the year I had a few bees dead from the cold. I got around this by putting a second mesh at the very bottom of the floor section ( plastic greenhouse screening mesh from the garden centre). I also used the mesh to extend the alighting board area outwards and downwards. These measures stopped the issue completely ( or the bees just changed behaviour)

 

[drstitson]

yes bees often like to investiagte under the floor and queen and cluster can sometimes end up there BUT what type of OMF do you have. have you got the floor the wrong way round? (ie with the open back/slot for board facing forwards?

 

[huntsman666]

They need a bit of time and help to orientate to the desired entrance.

Do you have a tray that you can put under the varroa floor? If so, put it in for a few days.

 

[enrico]

This 'problem' keeps arising! I agree there is no way that the mesh should be big enough for them to 'squeeze through' However it is common for bees to miss the entrance and go under the hive. They can't distinguish between a mesh floor and a queen excluder so they may spend ages trying to get to the main hive. As stated, there are two main things to watch. Make sure the queen isn't under there which is unlikely in most cases other than when hiving a nuc when she may just slip under. The other thing is to block the area under the landing board to the floor, this usually stops the problem overnight. The bees under there may just end up dying in the cold or of starvation so next inspection try and smoke them out from under there.
Sadly they are not intelligent enough to know that they can't get through the mesh, maybe if the mesh WAS big enough for them to squeeze through we wouldn't get the problem!!!!
E

 

[telford_keeper]

I will get a photo this evening without disturbing them too much, as they are still orientating I would have thought.

But just to reply to some of the posts, the mesh is this type here...
item number 26081080169
on a very well known auction site.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....0801691&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_757wt_906


So the bees are not landing there by missing the opening to the hive, they have definitely got there from through the mesh.

 

[oliver90owner]

they have definitely got there from through the mesh.

Not if the mesh is the same as in the link provided. Far too small a mesh size for a bee to get through.

RAB

 

[Skyhook]

they have definitely got there from through the mesh.

Not if the mesh is the same as in the link provided. Far too small a mesh size for a bee to get through.

RAB

Normal floor mesh about 3mm apertures, a bee needs at least twice that to get through. Unless there is a hole, or a gap at the edge, they are going round not through. Is the hive on a stand, ie can you get underneath to get them off, either with a gloved hand or eg a dustpan and bee brush/ 3" paint brush? They have got confused- you need to get them back into the hive, then put the correx board in for a few days until they work it out. Very unlikely that the queen is there, but be careful just in case.

 

[Firefly]

Are you sure they are going _through_, and not around the edges? (Though I admit that looks unlikely from the image)

I have a slide in/out OMF and initially the space around it was enough for bees to squeeze around the corners. I added a few layers of insulating tape and that fixed it.

The slots for the slider were made to hold an OMF with a wooden surround, but the OMF I was sold with the hive had only a thin metal strip, no wooden frame, so it shook, rattled and rolled

David

 

[huntsman666]

I agree, this looks like standard open mesh floor. I can't see how they'll get through that.

However, it is not unusual for some bees to go under there if they haven't orientated properly and I take it they are new to your hive.

If it's installed correctly, put the tray in and block it off for a couple of days.

Either way, they should sort themselves out pretty soon.

 

[telford_keeper]

I had thought that they might be getting through from somewhere else, but i have checked the gaps for the correx sheet, and the wooden block is very well sized and made.

The only thing I haven't checked is if there is a gap by the entrance which they might be slipping through.

I didn't think they were coming through the mesh but as an amateur I couldn't be definite..

here is a picture of them happy at the entrance...

 

[Mike a]

Next time you pop out to see them take a quick picture from underneath.
The set up in the picture looks fine although it may be worth narrowing down the entrance a little if you haven't already in case of wasp attacks or robbing.

<That reminds me I need to build a stand for this hive>

 

[telford_keeper]

The reason they are all clustered in the middle like that is because I had just removed the reducer to take the photo.

They are not established enough to defend the whole opening, and with only 5 frames with comb and brood, it will be a short time before they are ready for the next size up doorway.

I have three types of opening I could use, the small winter one which came with the floor which is a lovely arch cutout extending 2-3 inches. then the one which came with the hive which is square opening with rounded corners about 4-5 inches wide and obviously no doorway bar which leaves the entrance as pictured above. Or as you have done I can just wedge the bar at an angle to alter the entrance to a desired size.

I knocked that stand up from a shipping pallet at work. the ground is slightly sloped so I had to make the legs different lengths to level up the hive. And it was more fun than buying a flat pack one.

 

[MandF]

Edited to say I have now checked the ebay listing and see that the board is a drawer type with apparently no gaps.

I see from the front picture of yours there looks like a 1cm square hole on the left side?

 

[Swarm]

Looks like the end of the recess for sliding in the varroa floor.