Bees like large comb?

[Tremyfro]

Your height adjuster blocks are much neater than mine!
Does that hive have an under floor entrance all along the side of it?

 

[Beefriendly]

Now I'm not saying that this exclusive designation of combs always occurs with the deeper format when running foundationless, but I've come to see this so often, that I now consider the 'normal' DN oval brood layout to be an artifact created by the relatively shallow DN frame shape. Does this matter ? I don't know.

For what it's worth I find in National Brood frames it's the type or fecundity of the queens that make the difference. Local mongrels, Amms lay an oval pattern, pollen and stores around the brood. Buckfast queens go wall to wall solid brood.

 

[Finman]

. Buckfast queens go wall to wall solid brood.

In one brood system or in two brood?

My queens very seldom lay wall to wall, because I do not use excluder. Very rare. The queen go to the third box, or fourth, if two is not enough.

The gap between wall and sidemost comb is too narrow. Bees like to store pollen in sidemost frame.

I think that it is important that frames have space in each box that pollen can be stored.
.otherwise bees store it into honey combs.
.

 

[bjosephd]

In one brood system or in two brood?



My queens very seldom lay wall to wall, because I do not use excluder. Very rare. The queen go to the third box, or fourth, if two is not enough.



.

Hey Finny... this is interesting... so when you are running one of your full size triple brood production colonies at the height of the season, what's the most amount of brood frames you'd have?

 

[Finman]

Hey Finny... this is interesting... so when you are running one of your full size triple brood production colonies at the height of the season, what's the most amount of brood frames you'd have?

Fifteen frames is usual. One box, 8 frames, too small. But in my hives brood are never from wall to wall.
.

 

[Little John]

For what it's worth I find in National Brood frames it's the type or fecundity of the queens that make the difference. Local mongrels, Amms lay an oval pattern, pollen and stores around the brood. Buckfast queens go wall to wall solid brood.

Now that is a very interesting observation, 'cause the bees in question (at my end) are Carnie-Buckfast crosses, and those of my friend on the South Coast are Carnie-mongrels ... but which have been exposed to Buckfast genes at some time in their history - so yes, it could well be that. I had assumed it was due to the frame depth - will be checking this more carefully now, as I have some 'pure' F1 Carnies overwintering on 14x12 - which might just help to clarify things a little.
LJ

 

[Little John]

Your height adjuster blocks are much neater than mine!
Does that hive have an under floor entrance all along the side of it?

Thanks - but for me everything has to be 'engineered' - it's about coming from that background - can't seem to shake it off ...

No - entrances in the ends. What looks like an entrance is in fact a strip OMF (painted black). It used to run along the centre of the floor, but I moved it across to one side when I added 3" of depth to the hive - so that the hive can now be tilted in winter, so that excess moisture will exit the box. I know Finman says this doesn't happen, but unlike Finland, water around here has a habit of flowing downhill.
LJ

 

[Beefriendly]

In one brood system or in two brood?

My queens very seldom lay wall to wall, because I do not use excluder. Very rare. The queen go to the third box, or fourth, if two is not enough.

.

2 Brood boxes (occasionally 3), not all frames. Perhaps 1/3 of them are filled without any pollen or stores. more so in late spring than later in the year. . I do use a queen excluder and sometimes find pollen stored as an arch in the super above. Only happens with my Buckfast and Buckfast F1's, not with Amm's or local mongrels. Don't know about Italians or Carniolans....yet.

 

[Finman]

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Pollen storing is essential that brood rearing can continue over bad weeks.

Lack of pollen in combs is a bad sign.
.

 

[Tremyfro]

Thanks - but for me everything has to be 'engineered' - it's about coming from that background - can't seem to shake it off ...

No - entrances in the ends. What looks like an entrance is in fact a strip OMF (painted black). It used to run along the centre of the floor, but I moved it across to one side when I added 3" of depth to the hive - so that the hive can now be tilted in winter, so that excess moisture will exit the box. I know Finman says this doesn't happen, but unlike Finland, water around here has a habit of flowing downhill.
LJ

Ah..so it's similar to the Beehaus but with a much smaller OMF. I like the plastic on the top of the blocks?..it makes cleaning a lot easier. How do you arrange the blocks. My Carniolans have a frame at the front entrance which generally has some pollen but not a lot of anything else...then one with some honey in the corners and a pollen arc and brood below which often has drone in it. Then it is all brood...as you say wall to wall...at the back of this I get honey...if I am lucky. My intention this year is to use the blocks under shorter frames...I was thinking of putting them under the 12th frame onwards...is that how you do it? I guess if the queen needs more space I would have to move the honey stores as the brood grows so I can add more brood frames...I guess it doesn't matter if the queen uses the smaller frames...and as the brood nest contracts they could back fill with honey...if we get better weather this year. Last year was all a series of catchup.

 

[Little John]

How do you arrange the blocks. [...] My intention this year is to use the blocks under shorter frames...I was thinking of putting them under the 12th frame onwards...is that how you do it? I guess if the queen needs more space I would have to move the honey stores as the brood grows so I can add more brood frames...I guess it doesn't matter if the queen uses the smaller frames...and as the brood nest contracts they could back fill with honey...

Don't know yet about the blocks - this will be my first year playing with them.
In general, I've never really developed any 'plans' for managing Long Hives - I just 'wing it' according to what I find during inspections.

I've noticed that some colonies seem to organise themselves much better in Long Hives than others. Some seem to lose the plot completely - this being more common in Shallow Long Hives than in Deep ones - for example - during winter they work their way through the stores combs which are invariably located at the back (i.e. furthest from the entrance). Then, come spring, they start brood-rearing nearest to where the remaining food is, i.e. at the back - which kinda makes sense. But then, when a flow begins, they start a second brood nest at the front, immediately behind the first frame (which is normally used as a temporary store for incoming nectar) - so then there are two brood nests, which become even more separated by nectar/honey being stored between them. Theory says that the queen won't cross over honey - but I've seen her do just that, in order to maintain this divided brood-nest set-up. So, in such cases, I simply re-arrange the combs to bring the brood nest together near the front, and move the stores towards the back.

I've not noticed this scenario with Deep Long Hives - but then, they tend to have fewer frames - or at least, mine do.

I just want to endorse what Pargyle was saying about Deep Long Hives being great donor hives. I fully agree. Shallow Long Hives make good donors - but Deep LH's are even better.
LJ

 

[Finman]

- so that the hive can now be tilted in winter, so that excess moisture will exit the box. I know Finman says this doesn't happen, but unlike Finland, water around here has a habit of flowing downhill.
LJ

my hives have tilted last 50 winters.

But well done with that water flowing theory.
.

 

[Tremyfro]

That's really interesting LJ....I guess you would only see that in a long hive with an entrance at one end. I know Pargyle has his entrance in the middle but did say that he moved frames as well.
Is would be interesting to know what the bees would do if left alone with the two brood nests...would they eventually abandon the one at the back and the queen move forward to make the front brood nest the main one...and the bees back fill with honey as the summer flow continued?
I wonder how a bee strain which is said to make smaller brood nests would use a long hive...whether it would in fact make a bigger brood nest. Perhaps it's the type of bees which are in the long hive that determines whether it can even be a donor hive?

 

[Finman]

Tupla
,

 

[Finman]

I wonder how a bee strain which is said to make smaller brood nests would use a long hive...whether it would in fact make a bigger brood nest. Perhaps it's the type of bees which are in the long hive that determines whether it can even be a donor hive?

The fact is, that you can nurse only small colonies in long hives. Finland was full of long hives 50 years ago, and they are now all burned , when guys started to buy poly hives.c
Modern colonies have been long time 3 fold bigger than mongrels 50 years ago.

The hive can be splitted into two hives. The colony size is then maximum 3 boxes. IT is easy to make AS, but with Langstroth it is even easier. To move that long hive alone is not at all easy.

Our foundation size was 30 x 30 cm.

The idea on the hive is exactly the same as our "kääntöpesä", = turn around hive. IT is popular in eastern Europe as "chest hive".

I made those 3 pieces and then I burned them, and I changed to Langstroth.

Long hive is impossible to use in migrative beekeeping.

,

 

[mintmoth]

Not yet - I do have a quasi-Layens hive ready to go, but not occupied yet...
Both height-adjuster blocks will be located at the ends when in use - one has been moved inboard here, just for the photograph.LJ

What is the purpose of the height adjuster blocks? Surely the frames should be the whole depth of the hive?

Or are they a conversion aid so you can add full frames from regular hives?

 

[pargyle]

The fact is, that you can nurse only small colonies in long hives.

More rubbish ... Why can't you have large colonies in Long Hives - they make huge colonies of you let them - there's no difficulty in looking after bees in a Long Deep Hive

The idea on the hive is exactly the same as our "kääntöpesä", = turn around hive. IT is popular in eastern Europe as "chest hive".

So someone likes them then ? Just not FINLAND !

I made those 3 pieces and then I burned them, and I changed to Langstroth.

Long hive is impossible to use in migrative beekeeping.

They are heavy but if you are not intending dragging your bees all over the country then it's not a problem is it ?

,

More personal unsubstantiated opinion from the Fin - pretending they are facts ...

 

[Finman]

.
Pargyle. The size of the colony depends on queen's ability to lay. You never buy Queens. I wonder, from where you get those "huge" layers?

 

[pargyle]

.
Pargyle. The size of the colony depends on queen's ability to lay. You never buy Queens. I wonder, from where you get those "huge" layers?

Local mongrels ... all my bees are descended from either the initial swarm I started with or subsequent local swarms. If you want to see evidence of how many frames of brood I've had in my long hive then I have them somewhere and I'll put them up on my Flikr account ...

Just luck I guess ... or a different style of beekeeping to you perhaps ? Who knows - I certainly don't.

 

[Finman]

.
I know local swarmy mongrels. I have had them decades.