Bees like large comb?

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Its an interesting thread and rather than show rights and wrongs it shows the disparity of intentions and expectations people have.

However, in the broadest of terms, perhaps not surprisingly, I tend to side with Finman that vigorous bees are preferable to those which are 'happy in a single BS deep' (plus supers, maybe a couple, in season). (Vigorous and suitable of course, not vigorous and unsuitable.)

On another forum recently a post showing a bar of brood was posted, as an excellent example of an Amm bood comb, and seemed to be considered what we should all be aiming for, but my first thought on that, if its all the colony can do, was to get rid of the line by requeening or just bump her off and unit it to something better. Without seeing the colony first hand a getting a chance to go through it I would be starting from the standpoint that it was too inbred and had problems.............yet from other, more conservation rather than economics viewpoints it was perfect, but to me it was rubbish. C'est la vie.

Gentle bees? LOL....I don't think many of those who post about gentle bees extolling the virtues of their own stock truly know what gentle bees are.

Swarming? Much of that is caused by the beekeeper. Not enough space for the queen to lay in is the most common issue. A decent queen will lay 2000 eggs a day...so you need 42000 cells for brood alone JUST as a bare minimum...........not including any space for pollen and stores...maximum brood area in a BS deep (we use 11 frames in ours on the old spacing of 1.5") is 55000 cells. A little more in a Langstroth. Not nearly enough when gaps, and stores are taken into account, so you need swarm control measures if WE are not going to cause swarming. If the queen has to hunt around for vacant cells trouble is virtually certain.

Unlike Finman I suspect, we use excluders as a management tool up till late June or so, then remove them. Like Finman we find that the bees then (in poly mostly) change their nest disciple and can literally stick a side or com of brood in anywhere in the bottom three boxes. Nest shape is sort of maintained but you do get oddities in many hives.

This vigour is essential for us, as it gives bee power in August. Attached is a picture, actually taken by one of our bee inspectors and sent to me while they looked in on the apiary passing by to visit another apiary (of another beekeeper) and it shows as starkly as possible the disparity of expectations. This picture was taken near Kingussie in late August last year while the group were at the calluna (ling) and is one of our Langstroth poly units. Every box in these stacks is a standard deep box, and all but a few top boxes are well in use by the bees. There are a variety of sizes of course, there always is, but the tallest there is 8 high. There are a couple of roofs off. I assume inspector nosiness at play. Against this I would find an apiary happy in single BS deeps with a moderate honey crop to be rather depressing.

There are pictures of this group NOW on Twitter. despite the greed and cruelty of the way we work them there are ZERO losses and more than 50% are wall to wall bees ready for the new season.

For those who look on migration as a problem for the bees (putting the beekeepers work to one side) then I really will not argue...its very of that the bees moved around to be kept on crop for as much of the season as possible are the best in spring, and bees that got a good run of it at the heather are almost always among our best the next spring. Work does them good...its what bees are most content at, it helps them and is not exploiting them

But, if you are of a conservation inclination and your ideal is a situation where your bees do not get moved around and are happy in a small box and for a modest crop that's fine. Its a perfectly valid desire. Just not mines.

Frugality? Well I don't like the types of bee that eat everything in sight then peg out from starvation mid season, mostly because we don't have time to run round constantly feeding. But frugality as an aim on its own is a totally false economy. Save maybe 10 quid on feeding in the year and celebrate it and ignore the 50 or 100 less value in crop those bees might bring..........to me its a similar false economy to save money by using starter strips and happy to accept 25% less return...........the loss dwarfs the saving.

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It's a great post Murray ... I would love to see stacks that high in my garden - but with 100+ beekeepers within a 5 mile radius (x how many hives ?) and a largely urban/allotment/farmland mix within the immediate foraging area the reality is that I have no chance.

But .. I don't have a problem with migratory beekeeping UK style or the way you and as far as I can see the majority of UK Commercial beekeepers keep their bees. Frankly, you would not be much of a business man - or in business very long as a beekeeper - if you could not keep your colonies alive, healthy and working !! I don't consider your beekeeping to be either cruel or expoitative in any way. Although I know there are a number of evangelistic so called 'natural' beekeepers that would ... and I don't agree with everything they purport to be good for the bees.

My hobby beekeeping style would not easily translate to a larger commercial operation - with seven colonies at the bottom of the garden and within cup of tea distance I have the luxury of seeing them on at least a daily basis ... I can take liberties and accept the limitations of what I do.
 
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If long hive is so good, it is then. Only few have noticed it.
 
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I should read over my posts before hitting send.....

Someone has spilled something sticky on my keyboard and the keys are sometimes not registering. Have only noticed after being out at the bees and the window to edit last post has gone......sadly it reads somewhat illiterate.

In particular, despite it being Sunday, we do not employ brood nest 'disciples', the word was meant to be 'discipline'.
 
What is the purpose of the height adjuster blocks? Surely the frames should be the whole depth of the hive?

Or are they a conversion aid so you can add full frames from regular hives?

Ah....well the long hives take 14x12 frames...and my extractor can't spin them out. I can spin the 12x9 brood frames though. So the height adjuster blocks are so they don't build extra comb under the shorter frames. Not that it matters hugely, as I can just cut off the honey comb and use it as cutcomb....but if they cross comb it then it's a nuisance.
It doesn't matter if the queen crosses into them as they are national brood size anyway and can be used elsewhere if needed.
It's a way of avoiding putting supers on...BUT if we have a fab summer...I can whack on the supers as well and the queen can still fill the 21 frames in the long hive if she wants.
 
The fact is, that you can nurse only small colonies in long hives. Finland was full of long hives 50 years ago, and they are now all burned , when guys started to buy poly hives.c
Modern colonies have been long time 3 fold bigger than mongrels 50 years ago.

The hive can be splitted into two hives. The colony size is then maximum 3 boxes. IT is easy to make AS, but with Langstroth it is even easier. To move that long hive alone is not at all easy.

Our foundation size was 30 x 30 cm.

The idea on the hive is exactly the same as our "kääntöpesä", = turn around hive. IT is popular in eastern Europe as "chest hive".

I made those 3 pieces and then I burned them, and I changed to Langstroth.

Long hive is impossible to use in migrative beekeeping.

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Yes I understand what you are saying but you run your colonies to produce as much honey as possible...and I guess you are fit enough to lift the heavy boxes...and able to take them to different pastures. I can't do any of those things...so I have to be satisfied with a different way of beekeeping. The long hive I use holds 21 (14x12) frames...about the same as a double jumbo national hive. My bees can fill a single jumbo brood box easily...and I have to add a smaller box on top...when we get good spring nectar flows. Then there would be boxes on top of that for honey stores. I can't lift them on and off during inspections...too heavy. So a long hive suits me.
Migration...I don't do that but moving the hives is not difficult in the winter...we did this just a few weeks ago by lifting between two people.
My hives are well insulated...like a Polyhive.
The last two years the nectar flows have been poor. Not because there are too many colonies in the area but because the weather was bad.
I like the long hive because there is little lifting, I like them because the bees don't get so disturbed during inspections. I like them because the bees have lots of room to expand and I can do easy swarm control without having towers of boxes to move around. I can even add half supers above the colony ...if we are lucky and have a real nectar flow.
This thread isn't about the pluses and minuses though...it's about the different ways the bees use the hive and how we can capitalise on that.
 

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