Bees in the wild

[Monsieur Abeille]

Back to the original post - yes some do live in the wild, although it is commonly believed that survival is harder since he arrival of varroa, and therefore there may be fewer about now than before.

(Have I insulted anyone?)

 

[Chris Luck]

Apis millifera millifera in France? If crop circles mean anything, this could also be true

Oh dear me, as Hivemaker has pointed out France is one of the Countries where the UK was re-stocked from, it is the European dark bee...

...AND if you wish to continue digging your hole...

.....where do you think the bees in Ireland came from?

.....or the UK for that matter?

If you don't know the answer think long and hard and do your research.

Lack of snakes in Ireland is a big clue, think serious history, not the last couple of hundred years.

On Topic. Here in France feral or unmanaged colony numbers recovered after the initial drop when varroa first arrived here in 1982 and now they are plentiful again and are without doubt re-enforced with swarms from managed colonies. In a "normal" situation it could be expected that at least 10% of colonies would die out each year and that additionally there would be fairly high failure rates due to swarming - swarms failing to find a good home and V.Queens failing to mate.

Some bee colonies die out and it's just as well they do.

Chris

 

[huntsman666]

<Lack of snakes in Ireland is a big clue, think serious history, not the last couple of hundred years.>

Now you continue to be insulting.

Of course Amm was in France but now adulterated.

After the ice age we had and continue to have relatively pure Amm.

Galtee dark queens were tested and found to be 100% Amm.

This thread has also become very adulturated due to you.

I'm finished, find another sparring partner.

 

[Chris Luck]

I'm sorry if you find the facts insulting huntsman, it's certainly not personal, but the reality is that AMM is in France, (and the UK) however the point that you want to wriggle away from is your original post and I quote again...

They'll live successfuly for about four years until varroa mites (an import) are too large in number and wipes that colony out.

Beekeepers treat to limit the varroa numbers in their hives. If they don't, the same thing will happen.

Which simply isn't true, not factual, incorrect, not real and leads to misinforming others that also don't know, but hey, perhaps that's how you picked it up, there's enough duff information on the web.

Chris

 

[tonybloke]

there's a feral colony in the wall of a 13th century warreners cottage Nr Mildenhall, been there for as long as anyone can remember.
I also know of a colony in an Oak tree nr Norwich, also been there for years.
perhaps someone should tell them they're supposed to die out every four years?

 

[RoseCottage]

Without wishing to offend anyone. This year I 'discovered' a house in the next village with 4 feral colonies in an outside wall. All separate but within 20 feet of each other. The homeowners saw the first colony arrive 30 years ago when they likely swarmed from a local beekeeper's hive. He and his hives have long gone to the Orchard in the sky.

They are all very small, calm bees and each year throw off swarms. We had 2 ourselves from them this year.

So in my opinion they are feral after establishing a community some 30 years ago. It seems most likely that the original bees are just a gene pool echo but there seems little doubt these bees are 'feral' rather fresh colonies each year.

All the best,
Sam

 

[huntsman666]

Chris, as you refuse to accept a supporting scientific paper from the Irish Department of Agriculture that varroa can and will given the right circumstances caused Colony Collapse Disorder, I'll leave you with your entrenched and blinkered view.

You're in a totally different beekeeping geography. My comments were pertinent to the British Isles and Ireland where conditions are very different.

I'm not going to play your game of 'Got you last.'

'nuf said!

 

[Brosville]

You just don't want to face the fact that bees can and do survive in the wild, even here in the UK, despite the best efforts of varroa and the pesticide industries to ensure otherwise.
Feral colonies exist here in the uk, some of course will be lost to all sorts of things, but they can and do survive! There's many "chimney" colonies that have been going for years - I don't know where you got hold of this cobblers that they can't survive without "intervention", sounds daft enough to come from the BBKA...........

As for the nonsensical quote about "CCD".......... ROFLMAO! (CCD, not in these islands, and if it were, certainly not just from varroa)

 

[Poly Hive]

Not wishing to spoil the party, but interesting to see some of the attitudes none the less...

On a varroa course in Germany their scientists said from their research that they were finding untreated colonies took 4 years to collapse and abandon, and they did leave brood behind by the way. This was just pre infestation in the UK so must have been 1990. The fun began here in 92.

When they were challenged on the numbers of varroa in the colonies they simply stated, "We kill the bees and count the varroa" chilling I thought, but practical.

When people talk about colonies in the wild having been in a certain location for many years the most likely scenario is that they have swarmed themselves to nothing, and then been recolonised by a swarm. There is no guarantee at all that the occupants one year have any relation to what was there the year before.

PH

 

[huntsman666]

Poly, that what I have been saying but got rudely attacked for it.

Brace yourself!

 

[Poly Hive]

The ethos is play the ball not the man as some seem to forget. However there is always a way to remedy such issues.

Niver fear mannie, aye ready here.

PH

 

[enrico]

we have had 'wild' bees in our church roof undisturbed for 25 years to the best of everyone's recollection. At least one colony if not three!!!

 

[oliver90owner]

that what I have been saying but got rudely attacked for it.

They'll live successfuly for about four years until varroa mites (an import) are too large in number and wipes that colony out. Is what you actually wrote.

Just not true is it? Some know that some colonies live quite happily in equilibrium with varroa (per Chris for instance); some know that unless colonies are treated rather more than anually, their colonies most certainly will not be 'successfully' survive to that magical value and then magically collapse (with no warning?); FERA quotes typical threshhold limits and indicates levels at which the colony will collapse (but do not call it CCD) and also give typical time scales, I believe.

Then you scome along and are quite specific that a colony will live successfully for about 4 years and then collapse.

We also told, by Fera, that the varroa loadings increase by approximately double every month. Simple maths tells me that (some) of my colonies, unless treated will collapse next year, if indeed they survive the winter. Feral colonies do not get those treatments.

I did say that perhaps location is an important factor. I did point out that this was a general and not a specific question asked. And you think you were rudely attacked. Trouble is a lot of these questions need reading carefully and answering acurately.

As the damage threshold seems to vary, dependant on location (again FERA are clear and open about this), it would appear that not all locations are exactly equivalent in this respect. That may indicate, to those who read more widely, that some tests carried out may give different results/findings than others.

Let me remind you what you wrote, just one more time: They'll live successfuly for about four years until varroa mites (an import) are too large in number and wipes that colony out.

I am very sorry but I do not believe a feral colony, with an initial heavy varroa loading, will survive about 4 years ( is that + or - one month, 3 months, 1 year, two years?) - unless there are other factors which could make that statement equally worthless.

 

[huntsman666]

I'll go by what the professional researchers in my Dept of Agriculture have to say and advise.

You do what you want.

Kindly post your own view without attacking all about you while behaving like a know-it-all which you're not and stop behaving as if you own this forum.

 

[Smith21]

Back to the original post - yes some do live in the wild, although it is commonly believed that survival is harder since he arrival of varroa, and therefore there may be fewer about now than before.

(Have I insulted anyone?)

Thanks Monsieur Abeille a simple question I thought but turned out to rattle some cages

 

[Chris Luck]

Once again....

In 1994, a first group of 12 honey bee colonies were found surviving in two different places of France, near Le Mans and around Avignon.
They were feral colonies or colonies in abandoned apiaries that had not been treated to control Varroa. In this work, we report on the ability of these colonies, some additional colonies found through a survey (Le Conte et al., 2000) and descendants of these colonies to survive in France without any form of Varroa mite control...

Source document - control study, no guesswork with continuous occupation.

http://www.prodinra.inra.fr/prodinra/pinra/data/2009/12/PROD20097b481c6_20091209115710014.pdf

Chris

 

[Smith21]

Come on guys have you thought you both may be right. If colony of bees don't get the varroa mite they will live for many years.. If they do get invested with the varroa mite they may only survive for 4 years.

Just my thought on the subject. Hope any of my future question generate a more calmer response. LOL

CHEERS to all who have replied to my post.

Kevin.

 

[huntsman666]

Correct!

 

[Chris Luck]

Except that the colonies in the study, (15 years), do have mites and so do mine and they survive perfectly well. I'm sure that there may be other factors such as allowing to swarm and not interfering or manipulating also as per the study.

I'm also sure that some colonies did and will succumb to varroa related causes or equally when varroa is an additional stress factor. I'm also sure that as I've already mentioned colonies "die out" for other reasons - it's nature.

Chris

Colonies living with varroa, some 15 years until the study ended.

 

[victor meldrew]

Feral colonies swarm at will !
Feral colony swarms,
leaves a large amount of brood behind with the parent colony !
I would think this leaves the parent colony over loaded with mites !
Mites escaping captivity on a daily basis adding to the mite load (No eggs brood for at least 3 weeks to make up bee losses )
The colony may throw casts, adding again to the over load !
This makes me sceptical of reports of feral colonies occupying sites continuously ,I feel it's more like re-occupation ,giving a false impression ?
True ,nature will throw up a colony or two which will handle varroa mites better than average , meanwhile there has been a reported dramatic drop in feral colony numbers since the advent of Varroa ?

VM