Bees gone over winter

[Austin]

I shut down my hive and put in winter stores and verroa strips in November last year. When I inspected the hive in February, they had all gone. I live in Normandy, France. What did I do wrong? All help appreciated. Austin

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have moved this from another thread
Sensible replies please.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I shut down my hive and put in winter stores and verroa strips in November last year. When I inspected the hive in February, they had all gone. I live in Normandy, France. What did I do wrong? All help appreciated. Austin

It sounds like they dwindled away to me, the colony gets smaller and smaller (the bees will get rid of their dead at that time as their numbers are still adequate) until they're down to a pathetic little cluster which just perish and fall away - giving the impression they have absconded.
Could be a myriad reasons, a bit hard to conduct a post mortem this late.
What, and how much did you feed them in the autumn?
How strong was the colony then?
did you see brood and maybe the queen whenyou took out the varroa strips?
What varroa treatment did you use?
Were there any stores left in February?
was there any evidence of brood when you opened up in February?
Could have been a failed queen, Nosema Ceranae going into winter, to small a colony.
We need some pointers.

 

[BugsInABox]

There will be an obvious reason probably, but why is the answer not just 'colloney collapse disorder'?

 

[Austin]

It sounds like they dwindled away to me, the colony gets smaller and smaller (the bees will get rid of their dead at that time as their numbers are still adequate) until they're down to a pathetic little cluster which just perish and fall away - giving the impression they have absconded.
Could be a myriad reasons, a bit hard to conduct a post mortem this late.
What, and how much did you feed them in the autumn?
How strong was the colony then?
did you see brood and maybe the queen whenyou took out the varroa strips?
What varroa treatment did you use?
Were there any stores left in February?
was there any evidence of brood when you opened up in February?
Could have been a failed queen, Nosema Ceranae going into winter, to small a colony.
We need some pointers.

Thanks for your message. I saw absolutely no corpses. When I had inspected the hive, it was extremely healthy- or seemed that way. It might be worth noting that I had already lost a hive in May. Presumably they had swarmed. I always give them a plastic bag of candy for the winter, and I use verroa strips bought from the local vet.
I confess that as of yet, I have never been able to identify the queen. As I recall, there was pollen and honey cells, I confess I wasn’t looking for larvae.
In February, the candy appeared to be practically untouched.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

why is the answer not just 'colloney collapse disorder'?

Because thus far, the only place in the world that has witnessed that phenomenon (actually called Sudden Colony Collapse Disorder)
Is the USA and to use a term from my Customs days working the baggage benches there now seems to be a creeping declaration as to what the main causes of that is.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks for your message. I saw absolutely no corpses. When I had inspected the hive, it was extremely healthy- or seemed that way. It might be worth noting that I had already lost a hive in May. Presumably they had swarmed. I always give them a plastic bag of candy for the winter, and I use verroa strips bought from the local vet.
I confess that as of yet, I have never been able to identify the queen. As I recall, there was pollen and honey cells, I confess I wasn’t looking for larvae.
In February, the candy appeared to be practically untouched.

How much honey did you get from that colony?
How many frames were full of bees when you last inspected?

 

[BugsInABox]

Creeping declaration - love that! now I know what to call it as my teenagers do it all the time.
In this case do you mean it's probably not one thing but a combination of things we've always known about but got a bit worse?
Like long covid maybe.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In this case do you mean it's probably not one thing but a combination of things we've always known about but got a bit worse?

A good winter read would be 'The Beekeeper's lament' by Hanah Nordhaus. At first you begin to suspect it's just an apologist piece pointing the accusing finger at Neonics and CCD as a 'disease' in itself.
The book gives a good insight on the life of a third or fourth generation American bee farmer, but suddenly it shows his introspection, questioning his practices and the extremely questionable things going on in California.
But yes, he mentions the fact that due to constant migratory contracts all over the country, the bees never get our four seasons, no 'winter' break as they get chivvied up in the middle of it, fed pollen and syrup, and off they go to another crop.
The non sugar feeders will have a field day over there - as, to save even more cash, they don't even use sugar syrup but a much (proven) inferior feed making from corn syrup.

 

[user 819]

Absconding sound like the obvious but so late in the year ?
Any other reason such as starvation or disease would leave some trace of them, such as bees head first in cells or a plie of corpses.
How does the Asian hornet fit into the scheme of things, is the hive completely cleaned up without a trace ?

 

[Austin]

How much honey did you get from that colony?
How many frames were full of bees when you last inspected?

A lot. In total over 40kgs from that hive plus the deserted hive. About 2/3 frames covered in bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A lot. In total over 40kgs from that hive plus the deserted hive. About 2/3 frames covered in bees.

Ah. 2/3 frames is a very small colony going into winter. Too small to survive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A lot. In total over 40kgs from that hive plus the deserted hive. About 2/3 frames covered in bees.

Three frames of bees going into winter is not very many at all, my suspicion is (not that there's much to go on) your queen has failed/was failing and they just dwindled away, my guess is there was much stores either?
Could be N.Ceranae where the queen just lays fewer and fewer eggs with not many fresh nurse bees to cover them, coupled with the fact that forager bees tend to lose their way and never get back to the hive.
Much of this is guesswork mind you.

 

[user 819]

Even if they had dwindled, one would have expected the last few hundred would have died and still been present.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Even if they had dwindled, one would have expected the last few hundred would have died and still been present.

not over winter, not always - plenty of little creatures would think of a winter deadout as a nice cozy snack bar.
Seen it a few times with hives that have gradually dwindled away - rather than run out of stores, or isolation starvation.

 

[beeno]

Seems to me your winter preps are inadequate. Varroa treatment in November is way to late and the majority of the winter bees would have been compromised and kicked out of the hive and died away from it.

 

[pargyle]

Three frames of bees going into winter is not very many at all, my suspicion is (not that there's much to go on) your queen has failed/was failing and they just dwindled away, my guess is there was much stores either?
Could be N.Ceranae where the queen just lays fewer and fewer eggs with not many fresh nurse bees to cover them, coupled with the fact that forager bees tend to lose their way and never get back to the hive.
Much of this is guesswork mind you.

I agree - Sounds like a failing queen and not enough winter bees being made ... they would have been old bees trying to keep the colony going and many could well have perished outside the hive ... as you say ... it just dwindles away and all you are left with is an empty box ... often with plenty of stores in there ..just no bees. Late season queen failure seems to be a fairly common problem these day and new queens that only lay for a short time ... for reasons unknown although Roger Patterson has been banging this drum for some years and has some interesting observations here:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/rogerpatterson.html

 

[Nige.Coll]

Absconded it happens.
I've had colones move next door in winter.
Nowt left in the box but a few frames of stores.

 

[Gardeners Beehive Guy]

I shut down my hive and put in winter stores and verroa strips in November last year. When I inspected the hive in February, they had all gone. I live in Normandy, France. What did I do wrong? All help appreciated. Austin

so just something I noticed over the last 5 years
if I put any type of sugar fondant ex in a colony they will leave. ( I don’t cut my queens wings)

 

[Monbees]

so just something I noticed over the last 5 years
if I put any type of sugar fondant ex in a colony they will leave. ( I don’t cut my queens wings)

ex??