Bees from hell

[Anduril]

All this talk of re-queening every time someone gets a few irate bees is getting a bit old. A year ago I had very defensive bees in one hive that almost had me heading for the petrol and a complete departure from beekeeping. I tried all sorts of things but not requeening because I could never find the queen and in the end I did nothing of note. This year I have no problem with the bees at all. Perhaps they re-queened themselves, perhaps an aggressive drone had mated with the queen, perhaps I just became a more amenable beekeeper; who knows? All I do know is that left to their own devices they sort themselves out and just like humans, they just can't be angry forever, it takes too much energy.

Take a look at this https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=683840&postcount=35

The guy in Tonypandy started beekeeping 55 years ago, he started off with calm bees, but that didn't last long, he has had aggressive bees for years.

 

[xgeordie]

Absolutely. There are so many variables which contribute to colonies being labelled as 'bees from hell', and I have found :
a) Colonies described as such to be only little more than normally defensive,
b) Found them to be even more docile on subsequent visits.
I have certainly been'black veiled' and received a bunch of stings, but I have never owned a sting proof 'suit of armour' bee suit, nor re-queened or resorted to petrol or whatever. Maybe the ability to manage lively colonies without panic or big drama comes with experience?

Lol - "a little more than normally defensive". Last year was my worst ever as a beekeeper due to "bees from hell". I found:
a) They were extremely defensive to the point I used to dread my exhausting and painful visits to the apiary.
b) Found them to be ever more angry as the season progressed to the point they were unmanageable

Season was a write off - ended up destroying colonies / re-queening the apiary.

 

[philipm]

All this talk of re-queening every time someone gets a few irate bees is getting a bit old. A year ago I had very defensive bees in one hive that almost had me heading for the petrol and a complete departure from beekeeping. I tried all sorts of things but not requeening because I could never find the queen and in the end I did nothing of note. This year I have no problem with the bees at all. Perhaps they re-queened themselves, perhaps an aggressive drone had mated with the queen, perhaps I just became a more amenable beekeeper; who knows? All I do know is that left to their own devices they sort themselves out and just like humans, they just can't be angry forever, it takes too much energy.

I don't think you have ever had really angry bees, yes they all get stroppy sometimes but when you inspect and you have a job to see anything through your veil and you find you have a bee suit covered in stings also when working well away from the hive they still want to sting you for no apparent reason that's angry.I used to be of the opinion that things would get better but they rarely did.

 

[maz0]

I almost considered one of those frame grabbing contraptions this year as one of my hives gets so pissy they congregate on the lugs and go for the fingers when I try to lift the frames. I will just wait it out and requeen next year.

 

[masterBK]

Mazo: Don't you use a smoker to clear the lugs before you lift the frames?

 

[maz0]

Mazo: Don't you use a smoker to clear the lugs before you lift the frames?

Yup but if I'm being honest, the smoker seems to irritate them even more!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yup but if I'm being honest, the smoker seems to irritate them even more!

A yes, the old Mantra that gouts of smoke always pacifies the bees, when, in most cases it has the opposite effect.

 

[Murox]

Yup but if I'm being honest, the smoker seems to irritate them even more!

Clearly using the wrong smoke.
What you need is some leafy marijuana products to chill them.

 

[Finman]

A yes, the old Mantra that gouts of smoke always pacifies the bees, when, in most cases it has the opposite effect.

Change the queens.

No one has said that it always calms.

Sometimes bees try to bluck the smoker.
.

 

[SWEET]

No storms and sunny so decided to remove the tape on the cage, like a different hive, couple of headbangers and the odd ratty bee but much better, added a little feed to keep them occupied while they release her.

Fingers crossed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No storms and sunny so decided to remove the tape on the cage, like a different hive, couple of headbangers and the odd ratty bee but much better, added a little feed to keep them occupied while they release her.

Fingers crossed.

sometimes just the presence of a new queen changes the demeanour of the colony. I've tackled the odd colony before now that sound scary as soon as the roof is removed, found the queen, killed her then immediately put a new queen in to the hive in an introduction cage........... even before I had replaced the roof you could hear them get calmer.

 

[viridens]

Very interesting. I suppose such a rapid change in behaviour could only be the result of the presence or absence of a pheromone? Is anyone aware of any research?

 

[Erichalfbee]

found the queen, killed her then immediately put a new queen in to the hive in an introduction cage........... even before I had replaced the roof you could hear them get calmer.

That’s interesting. I’ve always waited half to one hour but being able to do it straight away is much more convenient

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That’s interesting. I’ve always waited half to one hour but being able to do it straight away is much more convenient

I used to wait, but haven't bothered now for years, I think it's better to just have an immediate change of pheromone (which confuses them) and then let them get used to it is better than the beginnings of a panic being queenless for a period and then a stranger just turns up. successfully Requeened a few powerful full colonies that way.
I treat nucs the same - make them up from Q+ colonies then immediately pop in the new queen in her cage.

 

[maz0]

I used to wait, but haven't bothered now for years, I think it's better to just have an immediate change of pheromone (which confuses them) and then let them get used to it is better than the beginnings of a panic being queenless for a period and then a stranger just turns up. successfully Requeened a few powerful full colonies that way.
I treat nucs the same - make them up from Q+ colonies then immediately pop in the new queen in her cage.

Do you think its now to late in the year for this? your method sounds very quick and simple.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you think its now to late in the year for this? your method sounds very quick and simple.

Nope - I've done it later, Just make sure the candy is protected for a few days then when you go back in to remove the tape, you will know by their demeanour whether it's safe to risk doing so.

 

[Swarm]

I would normally agree as I introduce queens much the same way but I would add that sometimes they just will not go along with your plans. Had two this year that killed the new queens, after losing the first, the second spent a week in the cage before being released. The bees were happy and she walked off merrily ... never to be seen again.
You can only do your best.

 

[Millet]

I would normally agree as I introduce queens much the same way but I would add that sometimes they just will not go along with your plans. Had two this year that killed the new queens, after losing the first, the second spent a week in the cage before being released. The bees were happy and she walked off merrily ... never to be seen again.
You can only do your best.

I do what you told me to do and the Nuc Method of introducing Queens is fail safe..unless you goof up..But either way the Nuc method is 99% successful ..
Re Queening a full colony is a different ball game to me..i lost a Queen trying last year and i will not do it again..

 

[Fusion_power]

I've dealt with super hot hives of bees a few times over the years. One of them gave me over 100 stings in less than a minute. The reason was that the hive had fallen over and the bottom board separated. The hive was very strong and robbers were attempting to get to the exposed combs. My attempt to set them back up was not welcome. This was back in the 1980's well before Africanized bees showed up. With that as a backdrop, I've seen Africanized colonies get aroused and land on a beekeeper until he looked like a swarm was settling in to rest. Unfortunately, every single bee was intent on stinging. This to say that the hottest hive you have ever dealt with is roughly comparable to the average Africanized hive and the hottest Africanized hive is almost beyond imagining. Fortunately, stinging propensity is amenable to selection. Most of my colonies have some Africanization as a result of bringing in a few queens from BWeaver in 2015. The first few generations had a wide range of behavior including several that were almost unmanageable. By eliminating queens in the worst colonies the remainder are now gentle enough to work in a t-shirt and veil.

 

[SDM]

Very interesting. I suppose such a rapid change in behaviour could only be the result of the presence or absence of a pheromone? Is anyone aware of any research?

It seems clear to me that external influences, queen pheromones and demeanour , or worker genetics can all cause aggression. If the problem is the queen herself the change in behaviour is immediate when a better queen is added, if it's worker genetics you'll see much less immediate change and will have to wait for the new queens brood to emerge before they fully calm down.