Bees and petrol stations

[plain_hunt]

Has the beekeeper involved tried keeping bees in another location? What happens then?

She acquired another colony last year, from a Beekeeper who was retiring. This was put in a different location, and I think they absconded, there’s about 100 bees on the hive, which were alive in February, but probably no queen. I’d expect them to be dead by now. They hadn’t had any varroa treatment but were given some after moving and also badly needed feeding, which did happen. I’m assuming absconded as there weren’t that many dead bees on the floor, and it had been a big colony.

 

[plain_hunt]

How and when, if you don't mind us asking?

She used apiguard in late summer, every year. And I know oxalic acid one year in December, as I did it, but not every December.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

She acquired another colony last year, from a Beekeeper who was retiring. This was put in a different location, and I think they absconded, there’s about 100 bees on the hive, which were alive in February, but probably no queen. I’d expect them to be dead by now. They hadn’t had any varroa treatment but were given some after moving and also badly needed feeding, which did happen. I’m assuming absconded as there weren’t that many dead bees on the floor, and it had been a big colony.

I think they just dwindled and died.
This 'absconding' myth seems to be very fashionable at the moment.
Colonies.even large ones don't just suddenly die leaving a big pile on the floor. In most cases, be it a failed/dead queen, nosema Ceranae or whatever, it's just a case of the bees are unable to make new bees, as they die ,the mortuary bees do their job and carry on clearing the dead away until the very end where either a cold snap has them all clustered and unable to reach food (hence leaving a small cluster just dead on the comb) ir they carry on until the last few bees die with none to clear the dead - you sometimes end up with just a few dozen dead bees scattered around.
It sound like your friend doesn't have a good track record of getting bees through the winter.

 

[user 819]

Petrol St has little bearing on the colony, they don't forage on spilt fuel.

 

[Boston Bees]

She used apiguard in late summer, every year. And I know oxalic acid one year in December, as I did it, but not every December.

Apiguard is good, but twitchy to use. If the conditions aren't right (not just temps) it doesn't do much. If I were her I would use Apivar for a year (apply late Aug for 8 weeks or so) and see if that makes a difference.

 

[madasafish]

So she has had bees on two sites: and both sets of hives died.

Which strongly suggests beekeeping error. She is probably doing a number of things wrong, none of which - on their own -is fatal but end up as a fatal combination.

A local novice beekeeper came to me for help 5 years ago. She could not overwinter any colony successfully for three years in a row. I agreed to help her over the next season. She was underfeeding prior to winter, using the wrong type of fondant (supermarket with additives), undertreating for varroa - cold location and using thymol based compounds too late to be effective , and on a windy site 220meteres above sea level not insulating.

We sorted all that out, she overwintered her first colony that year and now has four hives and rarely needs any help.

So I suggest a mentoring session from June onwards - at her hives to observe what she is doing wrong.

 

[plain_hunt]

So she has had bees on two sites: and both sets of hives died.

Which strongly suggests beekeeping error. She is probably doing a number of things wrong, none of which - on their own -is fatal but end up as a fatal combination.

A local novice beekeeper came to me for help 5 years ago. She could not overwinter any colony successfully for three years in a row. I agreed to help her over the next season. She was underfeeding prior to winter, using the wrong type of fondant (supermarket with additives), undertreating for varroa - cold location and using thymol based compounds too late to be effective , and on a windy site 220meteres above sea level not insulating.

We sorted all that out, she overwintered her first colony that year and now has four hives and rarely needs my help.

So I suggest a mentoring session from June onwards - at her hives to observe what she is doing wrong.

No, she moved the last acquired bees on my suggestion to a second site to see if it made a difference.

I am beginning to think that it might be her, and yes, that I will have to take a closer interest in her beekeeping. Oh well, I’d nothing else to do over the summer!

 

[plain_hunt]

Apiguard is good, but twitchy to use. If the conditions aren't right (not just temps) it doesn't do much. If I were her I would use Apivar for a year (apply late Aug for 8 weeks or so) and see if that makes a difference.

Yes, I gave up using it a few years ago, decided it didn’t work for me.

 

[plain_hunt]

It sound like your friend doesn't have a good track record of getting bees through the winter.

She doesn’t. If she can get a swarm this year then I shall mentor (monitor) her a lot, and try and work out what she’s doing, or not doing.

 

[plain_hunt]

Thanks for all your help and suggestions. It looks like I shall be keeping her company this year with her beekeeping and making some changes to what she does. If I remember I will come back and report any successes next year.

 

[plain_hunt]

An update. I did get her to move her bees to a field that is higher than the petrol station, although I’m not convinced it was the cause. She has 2 colonies that have both come through the winter so far. They were well fed last year, but she probably didn’t feed them any better than in previous years. They had some varroa treatment last year, can’t remember what it was, Apivar? Still have some stores, and are bringing in pollen like anything. It might be a slightly drier site, as it’s up a hill.
So I still don’t know what the problem was/is, but so far so good. Her previous colonies hadn’t made it this far, so theres hope for the summer.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

There has been colonies kept on the Stanlow site for many years,
Wouldn't fancy eating any honey from them.

 

[pargyle]

So she has had bees on two sites: and both sets of hives died.

Which strongly suggests beekeeping error. She is probably doing a number of things wrong, none of which - on their own -is fatal but end up as a fatal combination.

A local novice beekeeper came to me for help 5 years ago. She could not overwinter any colony successfully for three years in a row. I agreed to help her over the next season. She was underfeeding prior to winter, using the wrong type of fondant (supermarket with additives), undertreating for varroa - cold location and using thymol based compounds too late to be effective , and on a windy site 220meteres above sea level not insulating.

We sorted all that out, she overwintered her first colony that year and now has four hives and rarely needs any help.

So I suggest a mentoring session from June onwards - at her hives to observe what she is doing wrong.

You are right .. I've found that people often do the right thing at the wrong time or the wrong thing at the right time ... it's a thin line when it comes to carrying out varroa treatments that are temperature dependent and feeding - too much feeding going into Autumn can be as bad as too little feeding. A weak colony at the end of summer will suffer in a full size hive yet people are reluctant to combine weak colonies to make a single decent colony or dummy them down to a space they can manage.

So much in beekeeping is a fine balance and I've seen time served beekeepers who lack the ability to determine the nuances that are necessary to give bees the best chance - working with them to their timetable, rather than to the keepers schedule. Supering too early, fiddling with them too late, thinking swarm cells are supercedures or supercedures are swarm cells and knocking them down, splitting weaker or small colonies too late to get a decent queen mating or expecting a queen, mated late in the season, to fill a full size box with enough bees to overwinter. Adding a new fecund queen to a small number of bees and thinking they will thrive ...

Get any of these things wrong and it will set the bees back ....getting a few things wrong can be terminal for a colony ...bees are incredibly adaptable and ingenious creatures when it comes to colony survival ... inevitably, when managed colones don't survive and thrive it's because the beekeeper has or has not done something they should or should not have done. We usually, then, blame the bees ....