Bee trees

[pargyle]

Well you invited comment......

But bees and ley lines! Really.....

Like I said ... the naysayers usually come out to play ... Dowsing has been around for centuries - long before the 'Leylines' theories came into being ... dowsing works and is still used extensively along side modern detection methods to find a variety of things. That bees should be able to detect force lines does not surprise me .. they have magnets in their brains ... they are there for something !

Don't knock it until you've tried is ... a couple of bent coat hangers and an open mind - you might surprise yourself !

 

[E&MBees]

Like I said ... the naysayers usually come out to play ... Dowsing has been around for centuries - long before the 'Leylines' theories came into being ... dowsing works and is still used extensively along side modern detection methods to find a variety of things. That bees should be able to detect force lines does not surprise me .. they have magnets in their brains ... they are there for something !

Don't knock it until you've tried is ... a couple of bent coat hangers and an open mind - you might surprise yourself !

My son can dowse, I can’t. If we walk up and down the garden there are certain points were his rods move. Same places every time.

 

[pargyle]

My son can dowse, I can’t. If we walk up and down the garden there are certain points were his rods move. Same places every time.

Yes ... a few people it does not work for ... but I've also seen people who have said that they can't dowse suddenly find that they can ... I think what you need to try and do is empty your mind (not always an easy task for busy people !) and then think about what you are dowsing for.... be it energy lines, a lost earring or underground pipes - or anything else for that matter !

 

[bobba]

Like I said ... the naysayers usually come out to play ... Dowsing has been around for centuries - long before the 'Leylines' theories came into being ... dowsing works and is still used extensively along side modern detection methods to find a variety of things. That bees should be able to detect force lines does not surprise me .. they have magnets in their brains ... they are there for something !

Don't knock it until you've tried is ... a couple of bent coat hangers and an open mind - you might surprise yourself !

Dowsing and ley lines are 2 separate topics with a lot of overlap. People dows for many reasons. To find lay-lines, water, gold, oil or good ground to build on. So how can you be sure you were detecting a ley-line?

All scientific attempts to prove dowsing works have failed. Yet some of the biggest oil company's in the world have used dowsing!

I have tried it my self several times, with yew twigs and coat hangers in various places, unfortunately it never worked for me or anyone I was with.

And now bees have magnets in their brains! That explains why they stick to my hive tool. I know pidgins navigate by magnets, and strapping a magnet to their beak will screw it up. Are you implying bees navigate the same way as pidgins? In spite of my mocking, if you can provide any evidence to the magnets theory, I would be most interested.

If anyone is interested in lay lines I highly recommend a book called "The old straight track".


https://www.thehazeltree.co.uk/2014/07/14/book-review-the-old-straight-track-by-alfred-watkins/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And now bees have magnets in their brains!

Well bees need to calibrate their brains to the gravitational pull every day, and when they were sent up in space were incapable of doing anything as there is no gravity up there (look up some of International authority on bee biology - Prof. Robert Pickard's work)so why not?

 

[pargyle]

Dowsing and ley lines are 2 separate topics with a lot of overlap. People dows for many reasons. To find lay-lines, water, gold, oil or good ground to build on. So how can you be sure you were detecting a ley-line?

All scientific attempts to prove dowsing works have failed. Yet some of the biggest oil company's in the world have used dowsing!

I have tried it my self several times, with yew twigs and coat hangers in various places, unfortunately it never worked for me or anyone I was with.

And now bees have magnets in their brains! That explains why they stick to my hive tool. I know pidgins navigate by magnets, and strapping a magnet to their beak will screw it up. Are you implying bees navigate the same way as pidgins? In spite of my mocking, if you can provide any evidence to the magnets theory, I would be most interested.

If anyone is interested in lay lines I highly recommend a book called "The old straight track".


https://www.thehazeltree.co.uk/2014/07/14/book-review-the-old-straight-track-by-alfred-watkins/

I don't like and I don't use the term ley lines.... there's too much rubbish printed about these imaginary lines that join up somewhat random points on a map ... random theory means that you can see patterns in just about anything you can draw straight lines between.

Lines of force are found with dowsing and these are the ones that, once you have found them, you can mark on a plan and see where they go. It is these lines of force that bees find attractive and other things tend to concentrate on.

As for bees having magnets in their brains ... well ... perhaps not altogether in their brain but here you go:

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep23657

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't like and I don't use the term ley lines.... there's too much rubbish printed about these imaginary lines that join up somewhat random points on a map ... random theory means that you can see patterns in just about anything you can draw straight lines between.

Lines of force are found with dowsing and these are the ones that, once you have found them, you can mark on a plan and see where they go. It is these lines of force that bees find attractive and other things tend to concentrate on.

As for bees having magnets in their brains ... well ... perhaps not altogether in their brain but here you go:

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep23657

It's just a coincidence that a lot of these 'ley lines' seem to follow the lines of force (funnily enough, that was part of the discussion with my Environmental anthropologist friend) he prefered to use the phrase 'lines of force' just laziness in conversation had us using the tern 'ley line'

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As for bees having magnets in their brains ... well ... perhaps not altogether in their brain but here you go:

Well, to be fair, many members of the human race don't necessarily have their brains in their heads

 

[gmonag]

Well you invited comment..........
...If you watch the Dave Cushman ley line talk and look at the audience you will see several people up and leave as soon as he mentions ley lines. And notice its probably the scarcest audience of any speech. I must admit I felt a bit sorry for him....

I think you are refering to Roger Patterson who took over Dave Cushman's site after he died.

 

[user 819]

My cats lay in areas of energy, if I draw a line thru them invariably they form a straight line E to W or vica versa. The trusted coat hangers and biro's cross at these places.

 

[bobba]

I think you are refering to Roger Patterson who took over Dave Cushman's site after he died.

You are right, thanks.

 

[user 6228]

before the New Age Crystal clan got hold of the term ley lines just meant apparent alignments in the landscape that made for easy navigation... Now I can rationalise honey bees doing better where the natural features are such that it easier to navigate. i.e. less energy wasted correcting navigational errors.
And dowsing doesn't work when you isolate the practitioner from visual clues in the environment. So its not some "mysterious force"

 

[pargyle]

before the New Age Crystal clan got hold of the term ley lines just meant apparent alignments in the landscape that made for easy navigation... Now I can rationalise honey bees doing better where the natural features are such that it easier to navigate. i.e. less energy wasted correcting navigational errors.
And dowsing doesn't work when you isolate the practitioner from visual clues in the environment. So its not some "mysterious force"

There was a time when scientists thought the earth was flat and that you would fall off the end if you sailed beyond a point on the horizon ... some brave souls refused to heed the science and followed their instinct into the sunset... they didn't fall off the edge and eventually the scientists caught up with them. Just because you can't prove it at present does not mean it does not exist ....

 

[bobba]

I don't like and I don't use the term ley lines.... there's too much rubbish printed about these imaginary lines that join up somewhat random points on a map ... random theory means that you can see patterns in just about anything you can draw straight lines between.

Lines of force are found with dowsing and these are the ones that, once you have found them, you can mark on a plan and see where they go. It is these lines of force that bees find attractive and other things tend to concentrate on.

As for bees having magnets in their brains ... well ... perhaps not altogether in their brain but here you go:

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep23657

Very interesting stuff.

Now I would not dispute for a moment that bees can detect electromagnetism, that is after all how they sense how long it was since a flower was previously visited by another bee. I suspet they so this with their anteaters (sorry no proof).

I do not disputed the findings in this study are of interest, but..... No bees were exposed, strictly speaking to magnets. In the various experiments they were all exposed to electromagnetic fields that were forming and collapsing.

Look at theses quotes:

"The square coils were turned on/off to change the magnetic azimuth every 5 minutes during the stimulus period"

(By azimuth I assume they mean the orientation of the field, I don't see how turning it on and off would change that).

"To examine the magnetic sensing capability of the honey bee, a magnetic field generator was built to deliver short pulses of magnetic fields to the body of the honey bee"

"The CS (5 Hz of alternating field for 10 s) was a magnetic stimulus and the unconditioned stimulus (US) was a 50% sucrose reward."

So I do not think it is anything like the magnetic navigation of pidgins where by the placement of a magnet has an obvious effect. I suspect that many small creatures would respond to such stimulus.

The bit about only older bees responding was interesting, but just speculation.

I think the title of this study is misleading, and is the work of a typical bunch of biologists. Trust me - I have a background in electronic engineering and work with a bunch of very clever biologists that do study's on bugs. So I know what they are like, most don't know a volt from an amp.

A better title would have been:

Electromagnetic Flux Sensing through the Abdomen of the Honey bee

Regarding the force lines you speak of, obviously the earth has a field. But the experiment in no way simulates the kind of field you would find naturally.

I would very much like to go dowzing with you and see if I could sense one of your confirmed lines. And would like to bring another person who says they can dows to see if they can find your line without you showing them first.

I am still doubtful about the validity of dowsing but would still give it another go.

I am also tempered try some magnate experiments on bees.

Changing the topic again,

For the esoteric among you, I once ran a little experiment on the side at work. If anyone has heard of the "21 grams experiment". Well I tried this experiment on bees. If you seal 100 bees in an airtight vessel, then freeze them, wait for them to die, microwave them or roast them. Then reweigh, the weight goes down. I have repeated this experiment with various vessels, killing the bees in various ways. And the weight always goes down. You will need a 4 digit balance to detect the difference with 100 bees. I actually produced an estimate for the weight of a bee sole. Unfortunately all the notes for this obviously valuable research have been lost.

I would like to add, all the bees I used had already been used in other experiments and had been exposed to chemicals, so could not be returned to the hive.

 

[pargyle]

Very interesting stuff.

Now I would not dispute for a moment that bees can detect electromagnetism, that is after all how they sense how long it was since a flower was previously visited by another bee. I suspet they so this with their anteaters (sorry no proof).

I do not disputed the findings in this study are of interest, but..... No bees were exposed, strictly speaking to magnets. In the various experiments they were all exposed to electromagnetic fields that were forming and collapsing.

Look at theses quotes:

"The square coils were turned on/off to change the magnetic azimuth every 5 minutes during the stimulus period"

(By azimuth I assume they mean the orientation of the field, I don't see how turning it on and off would change that).

"To examine the magnetic sensing capability of the honey bee, a magnetic field generator was built to deliver short pulses of magnetic fields to the body of the honey bee"

"The CS (5 Hz of alternating field for 10 s) was a magnetic stimulus and the unconditioned stimulus (US) was a 50% sucrose reward."

So I do not think it is anything like the magnetic navigation of pidgins where by the placement of a magnet has an obvious effect. I suspect that many small creatures would respond to such stimulus.

The bit about only older bees responding was interesting, but just speculation.

I think the title of this study is misleading, and is the work of a typical bunch of biologists. Trust me - I have a background in electronic engineering and work with a bunch of very clever biologists that do study's on bugs. So I know what they are like, most don't know a volt from an amp.

A better title would have been:

Electromagnetic Flux Sensing through the Abdomen of the Honey bee

Regarding the force lines you speak of, obviously the earth has a field. But the experiment in no way simulates the kind of field you would find naturally.

I would very much like to go dowzing with you and see if I could sense one of your confirmed lines. And would like to bring another person who says they can dows to see if they can find your line without you showing them first.

I am still doubtful about the validity of dowsing but would still give it another go.

I am also tempered try some magnate experiments on bees.

Changing the topic again,

For the esoteric among you, I once ran a little experiment on the side at work. If anyone has heard of the "21 grams experiment". Well I tried this experiment on bees. If you seal 100 bees in an airtight vessel, then freeze them, wait for them to die, microwave them or roast them. Then reweigh, the weight goes down. I have repeated this experiment with various vessels, killing the bees in various ways. And the weight always goes down. You will need a 4 digit balance to detect the difference with 100 bees. I actually produced an estimate for the weight of a bee sole. Unfortunately all the notes for this obviously valuable research have been lost.

I would like to add, all the bees I used had already been used in other experiments and had been exposed to chemicals, so could not be returned to the hive.

You see ... there you go ... not everything can be explained scientifically but seeing is believing ... we'll meet up when this damned virus is over and you can play with my dowsing rods.

 

[Ed the Beek]

According to Dave Cushmans website these trees may be attractive, even if a colony does not survive a hash winter, for future swarms to settle because a) bees have been there before and b) the trees are positioned where several ley lines cross. I have a large tree (Ash) laid with the roots at 90deg to the ground and before i kept bees myself, some years would have a colony inside a cavity near the ground. There is also a large concentration of self set (oak) tree whips in that area / location. They are more likely to naturally germinate and establish on ley lines. Comment - .

I visit my bee tree every week, they are the same bees, there is never a week, apart from winter, when they are not flying. I think the dying off and swarms moving in is myth, there is also a colony in the eves of a friends house, been there for years gives off swarms every spring, very strong colony.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I visit my bee tree every week, they are the same bees, there is never a week, apart from winter, when they are not flying. I think the dying off and swarms moving in is myth, there is also a colony in the eves of a friends house, been there for years gives off swarms every spring, very strong colony.

I have "wild" bees living in a tree at the bottom of my garden and they did indeed die out for one year and another year they issued a starvation swarm of only around a hundred bees one April.
Another swarm moved in that June



So some survive and some don't

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I visit my bee tree every week, they are the same bees, there is never a week, apart from winter, when they are not flying. I think the dying off and swarms moving in is myth, there is also a colony in the eves of a friends house, been there for years gives off swarms every spring, very strong colony.

As Dani says, some survive and some don't I have a hollow oak tree near one of my apiaries, it's right next to the farm track so I pass within feet of it travelling to and from the apiary so it's easy enough to monitor, the same colony has been present for at least five years now.
There was also a colony in the West facing wall of the old chapel I take care of. Every year a week before palm Sunday (way before any serious bee colony activity, thus fresh swarms, in our area), my mother's cousin would check to see if they were still there they again lasted for over five years and only died out during that long protracted cold spring we had way back in 2012 or 13 - Easrer time they were fine, flying strongly, but that year, not long after we were forced to emergency feed all our colonies again due to more winter weather, no way could we get any feed to these, so they starved.

 

[Apple]

Every year since I have lived in this area I have had a call from Mr Goggins* an ex Methodist minister to remove at least one swarm from his " bee tree " it is on the intersection of about 17 "lines" that I have detected with my divining rods. Mr Goggins always looks on in amazement as I knock the swarm into a box and walk it into one of his empty hives ( He sort of" keeps " bees !) but he will never take up the rods.
I have an old wall in my top orchard which once again collects a swarm of bees every year, once again on the intersection of "lines".... Roger Patterson discovered this one on one of his visits to give a talk the West County beekeepers... and in fact convince me to try "dowsing"
* not his real name, but he looks like the post mistress in "Postman Pat!!

Jays I am told bury the acorns and wait for them to germinate so that they have a high sugar content... and use to lines / areas of different energy to navigate back to them. Some get lost an hence often an old oak growing at the intersection of the lines.

We do not seem to have any bees living in trees, but several old buildings that seem to have had bees living in them for 100 + years... also on intersection of these lines.

Just to add my two pennuth!
Chons da

 

[Mark Scarlet]

Well I do seem to have prompted comment. Maybe folks on here are bored with the 'keeping' now most winter prep is done. My comment on oak trees on the ley lines was something I read somewhere during my musings on the subject of trees. Cant find the source but the quote was something akin to ' because oak may have some iron content it is 100 to 1000 times more likely to self set on ley lines.