Bee stings

[B+.]

This is in the territory of Pharmacists, not self appointed Quacks on here.
.

DrEx is a doctor. Listen to what he says.

I remember you tried to tell me the last time this came up that I shouldn't have epipens. This is despite my son dying of Anaphylaxis, the whole family being tested at Addenbrookes, being prescribed and trained how/when to use them. My wife is still only half-way through her desensitization course (because she had to re-do elements of it due to reactions). You are wrong.

I go back to what I said: Are you a doctor?
Have you examined the OP?
How do you know that he doesn't need one?

This REALLY isn't the place to give/ask for medical advice, especially without tests/examinations by allergy specialists.

The last time I drove my wife to Addenbrookes for her treatment I discussed this sort of thing with Dr Shelley Dua (look her up...she's a Consultant in bee/wasp allergies at Addenbrookes). It's not my place to put words in her mouth or misquote her so I'll just suggest the OP seeks proper medical advice.

 

[Buzzlodge]

Epipens are designed to be used by laypeople, and have saved many lives.

I am aware of a case where a child died on the street from anaphylaxis because a pharmacist refused to give an EpiPen to its mother without a prescription.

Epipens should be available in public places, just like defibrillators are.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Defibrillators check the patient requires shocking before shocking.
Epipens don't check to see if the patient requires adrenaline

 

[Newbeeneil]

My reaction during my first 12-18months was pain for 15 seconds, swelling for 4 hours then itching for 4 days. It's now reduced to pain for 15 seconds and then I forget about it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Epipens are prescribed, how does an association get one prescribed to 'them'?

Not sure whether it can apply to something like a BKA but schools are now allowed to hold a stock of 'generic' epipens and have staff trained to use them in case a child suddenly shows signs of anaphylaxia.

Doctors seem to be more ready to prescribe epipens now, Swmbo has had one lately due to a progressively increasing severe reaction to bee stings and we have one tucked in my 'drugs store' in case it's needed for her. It was offered after her first visit to the practice nurse rather than asked for.
Last sting she had (to the face) she ended up looking like John Merrick's ugly sister after an encounter with a half open door.

 

[bingevader]

some nutter with a clandestine prescription Drug?

Just very, very funny!
Why does this forum so often descend in to utter nonsense!?

Epipens are designed to be used by laypeople, and have saved many lives.

This on the other hand is very true!

The main problem with epipens is that they tend to be used (by the people they are prescribed to!) inadequately rather than inappropriately.

They shouldn't be used for anything other than anaphylaxis, but if available at the time, paramedics will authorise the use.
So, nothing clandestine about it!

Having one in the AED box and making it a more general life saving box might not be a bad idea.

Having already rung 999, you'd have been authorised by the paramedic, making it life saving, not clandestine.

 

[B+.]

Epipens are designed to be used by laypeople, and have saved many lives.

I am aware of a case where a child died on the street from anaphylaxis because a pharmacist refused to give an EpiPen to its mother without a prescription.

Epipens should be available in public places, just like defibrillators are.

I completely understand where you are coming from saying something like this. It's something that keeps you awake at nights and something you can never forget. The annoying thing is when people who have never actually seen someone die this way (let alone someone they love) try to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about. I am heartily sick of it These people need to drop the ego and try to be human (if they can). I challenge anyone to say they would not try to help someone who needed it. If they say they wouldn't, I say they are either a liar or inhuman!

Most of you will never encounter anything like this (I hope). Count your blessings!

 

[XYZ]

I managed to delay my first bee sting quite a while. I got it collecting a swarm, trapped one behind my knee when I crouched down. Initial sting, a little pain but gone within half an hour.

On the other hand, a tiny, thin, weird looking wasp was inside my veil when I put it back on to do some more work the other day and it got me in the back of my neck. 3 days later and it still occasionally burns. Nothing major, just a little reminder it's there.

Weird.

 

[Karol]

I think there is quite a bit of confusion about the use of adrenaline auto-injectors.

Adrenaline auto-injectors cannot be supplied without a prescription.

Regulation 214 from the Medicines Act:

214.—(1) A person may not sell or supply a prescription only medicine except in accordance with a prescription given by an appropriate practitioner.

Regulation 214 (2) stipulates who is legally allowed to ADMINISTER the prescribed drug to the patient to whom the drug has been prescribed and supplied:

(2) A person may not parenterally administer (otherwise than to himself or herself) a prescription only medicine unless the person is—

(a) an appropriate practitioner other than an EEA health professional; or

(b) acting in accordance with the directions of such an appropriate practitioner.

Once supplied under a prescription they can be administered by anyone to the patient to whom the adrenaline auto-injector has been supplied under a prescription in a life saving situation. This is defined in an exemption under regulation 238.

238. Regulation 214(2) does not apply to the administration of a prescription only medicine specified in Schedule 19 where this is for the purpose of saving life in an emergency.

Adrenaline auto-injectors are named in Schedule 19:

Adrenaline 1:1000 up to 1mg for intramuscular use in anaphylaxis

The Medicines Act does not allow the administration by lay people of adrenaline auto-injectors to people who have not been prescribed the adrenaline auto-injector. So no, it is not permitted to have an adrenaline autoinjector in a kit bag for lay beekeepers to inject people who might develop a reaction to a bee sting. The only situation where this would be permissible is if the beekeeper were not a lay person medically speaking, i.e. were a trained paramedic.

It seems to me that people get confused between the terms 'supply' and 'administer' which have very precise legal meanings.

 

[yeogi75]

now in layman's terms can anyone describe the difference of a serve reaction to a sting and an anaphylactic shock victim , what should we look for not stating the obvious they are out cold.

 

[SWEET]

After yesterdays experience.. I've ordered the Oz armour suit and will look into Insect Allergy Testing (after reading some reports on here).

 

[B+.]

now in layman's terms can anyone describe the difference of a serve reaction to a sting and an anaphylactic shock victim , what should we look for not stating the obvious they are out cold.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/anaphylaxis/

 

[Beefriendly]

After yesterdays experience.. I've ordered the Oz armour suit and will look into Insect Allergy Testing (after reading some reports on here).

Highly recommended, was beekeeping in shorts only (+suit) last week. I've yet to take a sting through the suit, watch the veil though. I had to dump the rigid plastic bits that fit in the hood as they were (for me) forcing the veil against my face.
Note they are dirt magnets ....if they do a beige or a brown one go for that.

 

[Stiffy]

Highly recommended, was beekeeping in shorts only (+suit) last week. I've yet to take a sting through the suit, watch the veil though. I had to dump the rigid plastic bits that fit in the hood as they were (for me) forcing the veil against my face.
Note they are dirt magnets ....if they do a beige or a brown one go for that.

I like my Oz suit but bees have found an area under my upper arm that they can get at me. Cant find anything different in the material, no tears or holes, so will have to put a patch on the area.
S

 

[Newbeeneil]

With Beefriendly especially about the "dirt magnet"

I have been stung through mine whilst bent over, it was stretched across my back and I was stung on my shoulder blade.

 

[maz0]

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/anaphylaxis/

Worryingly, my wife got stung 3 times when mowing the grass by a tetchy hive I had other side of the hedge at the time. It didn't help she was trying a new shampoo made with lemon grass essential oils....

Anyway she felt OK at first, swollen sting spots, itchy....she woke up about 3am however, staggering around the room disoriented, said she felt about 200 degrees through broken speech, was breathing quickly, sweating, shaking....she took an antihistamine and a glass of water and the effects subsided within the hour. I'll admit I did panic a bit...

She went to doctors next day and the doctor said to keep taking antihistamines, she would consider this a mild reaction and let her know in future if it gets worse. She asked for a pen and was denied.

Would not like to see a severe reaction if that was 'mild' and next time might be to late to ask for the pen.

For what its worth. You can order the pens online at Click Pharmacy for £49.99. You will be required to fill in a question form after which a doctor will prescribe you one online. All legal.

Give yourself some free online training to identify it here: https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/information-training/allergywise-training/for-individuals/

£5 gets you a completion certificate also.

How you go about that from a legal perspective is up to you, I'm not advocating breaking the law. But it reminds me of that old saying, i'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

 

[SWEET]

Thanks all, unsure I like the sound of *area under my upper arm* stings? is that a weak point, I need a bombproof suit.

I've a couple of BJ 36 suits and so far these have been great but I do wear jeans and a fleece (and hat) underneath, sometimes on the verge of passing out.

After yesterdays attack thought I'd invest in something more sting proof for such rare occasions.

Looked at BJ's version but £400, bit keen for me.

 

[bingevader]

I think there is quite a bit of confusion about the use of adrenaline auto-injectors.

I'm not confused at all, because of these two sections:

Regulation 214 from the Medicines Act:

214.—(2)(b) acting in accordance with the directions of such an appropriate practitioner.

238. Regulation 214(2) does not apply to the administration of a prescription only medicine specified in Schedule 19 where this is for the purpose of saving life in an emergency.

As I mentioned before, in cases of anaphylaxis, paramedics will authorise the use of a pen if available.
Having spoken to a paediatrician, there is a push to have pens in all schools as standard for staff ("nutters") to use in an emergency.

 

[B+.]

Having spoken to a paediatrician, there is a push to have pens in all schools as standard for staff ("nutters") to use in an emergency.

Most schools will lock medicines away in cupboards in the School medical room. This is no good when a medical emergency occurs out in a playground or on a sports field.
My wife is now Head of Physics at a school in Hertfordshire but has a background in Pharmaceuticals (M.Sc in Medicinal Chemistry and ~15 years with GSK). She would be qualified as a Pharmacist in some countries (e.g. USA) but not here due to the amount of Law she would need to cover. She was asked about this when their current school nurse left. They will be having bi-annual training for all staff in dealing with medical emergencies like this (All Bedfordshire schools already have this). It's not much but could, possibly, save a life.
Things seem to change slowly. It's an up hill battle!

 

[bingevader]

We are only a small primary, so school nurses have long since been a thing of the past!
A shed load of us did the first aid course recently and I asked again, as I always do!
And, as I have already mentioned, although prescription only, if available, we would be authorised by a paramedic to use a pen if necessary.
We're looking into getting one.
Medicines are locked in the Head's filing cabinet, so a bit easier for staff to get to.
If we can order one on line, I think £50 would be a bargain.