Bee farmer / Commercial queen rearing

[elainemary]

Could bee farmers / commercial beekeepers with more than 50 colonies, please help with research I’m doing for a correspondence course towards my queen rearing exam by answering the following questions (pls cut and paste and add your answers):

1. How many queens do you produce each year?
2. What method of larval selection do you use (eg grafts, Nicot etc)?
3. What is your cell raiser method (e.g. queen less starter and queen right finisher; queen right Ben Harden method etc)
4. How many cycles of queens do you raise per cell raiser?
5. How do you keep your cell raiser going?
6. Any other points to help explain your choice of methods?

I’m keen to understand what you do as commercial beekeepers, rather than just consulting books which may be out of date

Thanks in advance for your time & feedback

Elaine

 

[PeaBee]

PM sent

 

[daroco]

If its studying for the BBKA M7 I wouldn't be too worried about knowing what people do - by large scale essentially what they seem to mean is raising multiple rounds of queens using grafting as the means of larval transfer.

1. It varies, but 100+.
2. Grafting.
3. Cloake board.
4,5 and 6. I find that even with adding brood above the board each week after a month the acceptance rate begins to suffer. However, this allows for 4 cycles if cells are removed to an incubator.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If its studying for the BBKA M7 I wouldn't be too worried about knowing what people do

seems par for the course for all of their 'modules'

 

[maddydog]

Is there a 'right' answer? More a case of finding out what works for you imho.

1) 50-100
2) grafting
3) queenless colony boosted by capped brood, 2nd box on top with frames of pollen,more capped brood, and graft frame. Cells remain in colony then transferred to mating nucs (gave up on incubator, found it unnecessary).
4) no more than 4 cycles (weather dependent) realistically 2-3. Colony boosted by sealed frames of brood and pollen patty/feed as necessary. Leave a single cell in the starter/finisher on the final round

 

[elainemary]

Thanks to the bee farmers that have sent me PM’s. Really appreciate your feedback and time.

Makes all the difference when people are prepared to help and be constructive towards those that want to learn
Elaine

 

[Michael Palmer]

1. How many queens do you produce each year?
1200
2. What method of larval selection do you use (eg grafts, Nicot etc)?
Grafting
3. What is your cell raiser method (e.g. queen less starter and queen right finisher; queen right Ben Harden method etc)
Basically, the cell building method practiced by Brother Adam
4. How many cycles of queens do you raise per cell raiser?
3
5. How do you keep your cell raiser going?
By adding emerging brood harvested from Brood Factories before each round
6. Any other points to help explain your choice of methods?
Builds large population of nurse bees. Gives me the best cells, more consistently than other methods.

 

[elainemary]

If its studying for the BBKA M7 I wouldn't be too worried about knowing what people do - by large scale essentially what they seem to mean is raising multiple rounds of queens using grafting as the means of larval transfer.

1. It varies, but 100+.
2. Grafting.
3. Cloake board.
4,5 and 6. I find that even with adding brood above the board each week after a month the acceptance rate begins to suffer. However, this allows for 4 cycles if cells are removed to an incubator.

The new syllabus expects candidates to understand and be able to give queen rearing solutions and reasons for the 3 differing scenarios:
-Hobby beekeepers with 5 or less hives
- Beekeepers with around 10-15 colonies
-Bee farmers / commercial beekeepers with over 50 colonies.

Have my own thoughts but thought I’d ask people actually in the ‘know’ how they do it and their reasons.

Think you’re spot on about commercial beeks wanting multiple rounds and I was interested how you overcome being short of time and how you keep your colonies going, producing good results through the full season

Helpful reply thanks

 

[elainemary]

1. How many queens do you produce each year?
1200
2. What method of larval selection do you use (eg grafts, Nicot etc)?
Grafting
3. What is your cell raiser method (e.g. queen less starter and queen right finisher; queen right Ben Harden method etc)
Basically, the cell building method practiced by Brother Adam
4. How many cycles of queens do you raise per cell raiser?
3
5. How do you keep your cell raiser going?
By adding emerging brood harvested from Brood Factories before each round
6. Any other points to help explain your choice of methods?
Builds large population of nurse bees. Gives me the best cells, more consistently than other methods.

Thanks, wow that’s a huge number of queens. I’ve seen your videos - great job!
When you say gives you the best cells - how do you measure / define the ‘best’ ?

 

[elainemary]

Is there a 'right' answer? More a case of finding out what works for you imho.

1) 50-100
2) grafting
3) queenless colony boosted by capped brood, 2nd box on top with frames of pollen,more capped brood, and graft frame. Cells remain in colony then transferred to mating nucs (gave up on incubator, found it unnecessary).
4) no more than 4 cycles (weather dependent) realistically 2-3. Colony boosted by sealed frames of brood and pollen patty/feed as necessary. Leave a single cell in the starter/finisher on the final round

Why do you use queenless all the way through to finishing?

Some (not all) commercial beekeepers move the cells after starting to a finisher queenright colony.
I’m just wondering why you keep yours queenless until the virgins emerge?

Like the idea of leaving one cell in the final round as a queenless hive, as found myself it’s very difficult to give this type of colony a mated queen after it’s done it’s job as a queenless starter

Appreciate your views

 

[mbc]

~400
- Grafting
- cloak board
~4
- addition of sealed brood
It's not set in stone, I don't think I've ever kept a cell raiser going from first graft all the way through to the end of the season, they just find a way to become unsuitable, either losing their queen or gaining a mystery virgin from somewhere.
Also using a cloak board, it's just a tool for separating the queen from the top box, the same can be achieved with a qx(and a spare floor), I have lots with a notch cut in the frame as a drone escape, very useful for getting those frames of sealed brood for boosting without trapping drones, but once you've got that separation it opens up all sorts of potential for swapping things round if any of your regular cell raisers have miss fired.

 

[maddydog]

Why do you use queenless all the way through to finishing?

Some (not all) commercial beekeepers move the cells after starting to a finisher queenright colony.
I’m just wondering why you keep yours queenless until the virgins emerge?

Like the idea of leaving one cell in the final round as a queenless hive, as found myself it’s very difficult to give this type of colony a mated queen after it’s done it’s job as a queenless starter

Appreciate your views

Laziness?

I've tried all the different ways and this way works best for me. Imho less chance of user error. I've got approximately a box and half (top box is dummied using Kingspan) in 14/12 packed with young bees with no other brood rearing duties than 20 grafts so there is never a nutrition issue and always jelly left in the cells.
I move cells to the mating nucs as again, in my experience, cells are accepted more readily. I understand the reasons for introducing virgins.
As MBC says, the bees are happy to thwart your well laid plans. Most often I've (unknowingly) set up the cell builder when they are superceding

 

[Michael Palmer]

Thanks, wow that’s a huge number of queens. I’ve seen your videos - great job!
When you say gives you the best cells - how do you measure / define the ‘best’ ?

Large, still containing royal jelly on day 10 after graft. Large fat queens.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Laziness?

I've tried all the different ways and this way works best for me. Imho less chance of user error. I've got approximately a box and half (top box is dummied using Kingspan) in 14/12 packed with young bees with no other brood rearing duties than 20 grafts so there is never a nutrition issue and always jelly left in the cells.
I move cells to the mating nucs as again, in my experience, cells are accepted more readily. I understand the reasons for introducing virgins.
As MBC says, the bees are happy to thwart your well laid plans. Most often I've (unknowingly) set up the cell builder when they are superceding

Do you candle your cells? Out of interest as I do to mine, when I mean candle I use one like this Egg candler
B+ introduced me to using one perhaps even more so if your adding cells direct to mini nucs.

 

[maddydog]

Do you candle your cells? Out of interest as I do to mine, when I mean candle I use one like this Egg candler
B+ introduced me to using one perhaps even more so if your adding cells direct to mini nucs.

Nope, nothing so high tech!
Harvested cells are in the mating nucs within the hour. I transfer the whole graft frame in a poly nuc which includes one of those chemical hand warmer hobbies that u replenish in hot water.
The main losses for me are queens that fail to mate properly and those that never return. The bees seem pretty able at producing viable virgins, the rest is in the lap of God's....

 

[elainemary]

Do you candle your cells? Out of interest as I do to mine, when I mean candle I use one like this Egg candler
B+ introduced me to using one perhaps even more so if your adding cells direct to mini nucs.

Mark, how does that candler differ from an ordinary LED torch? Aside from checking a pupa is inside, are you looking for anything specific - can you see more detail with this candler? Presume you just use it the day before emergence is due.

 

[elainemary]

Nope, nothing so high tech!
Harvested cells are in the mating nucs within the hour. I transfer the whole graft frame in a poly nuc which includes one of those chemical hand warmer hobbies that u replenish in hot water.
The main losses for me are queens that fail to mate properly and those that never return. The bees seem pretty able at producing viable virgins, the rest is in the lap of God's....

Thanks, are you using mini mating nucs like Apideas? I had 100% mating success with 3 frame Nucs last year (just 12 queens) , find them much better than Apideas re success. Used the top box of my Cloakboard to populate the bees in the Nucs (2 rounds)

 

[elainemary]

~400
- Grafting
- cloak board
~4
- addition of sealed brood
It's not set in stone, I don't think I've ever kept a cell raiser going from first graft all the way through to the end of the season, they just find a way to become unsuitable, either losing their queen or gaining a mystery virgin from somewhere.
Also using a cloak board, it's just a tool for separating the queen from the top box, the same can be achieved with a qx(and a spare floor), I have lots with a notch cut in the frame as a drone escape, very useful for getting those frames of sealed brood for boosting without trapping drones, but once you've got that separation it opens up all sorts of potential for swapping things round if any of your regular cell raisers have miss fired.

Good idea re drone escape. My Cloakboard experiment last year was so populated with bees that swarm cells were built in the bottom box. Good job the bottom entrance was closed at the time though I do clip my queens! Like the Cloakboard but it is probably OTT for the number of queens I produce. Still a good learning experience. Thanks for your feedback

 

[Curly green finger's]

Mark, how does that candler differ from an ordinary LED torch? Aside from checking a pupa is inside, are you looking for anything specific - can you see more detail with this candler? Presume you just use it the day before emergence is due.

I have one for the chicken eggs and it's a very concentrated led so I use that, I've tryed using a normal led torch they work but the lights not concentrated enough.
You can keep track of development of the larvae once capped and see size and movement.
The candler isn't that good on darker cells.

 

[maddydog]

Thanks, are you using mini mating nucs like Apideas? I had 100% mating success with 3 frame Nucs last year (just 12 queens) , find them much better than Apideas re success. Used the top box of my Cloakboard to populate the bees in the Nucs (2 rounds)

I had about 60-70 apideas but gave them away as they were nothing but trouble. Great in theory but not in practice is my experience. I use 3*3frame mating nucs that fit within a national footprint.
Once the queen has mated and the brood pattern looks good I move them into a poly nuc and restock the mating nuc with fresh bees. It's a great way to utilize the more aggressive colonies without having to requeen. A troublesome 2 frame nuc is easier to cope with than a full size monster!