Balled Queen on inspection

[simonforeman]

So my home apiary inspections did not go well.

Hives 1&2 checked and both I have added a 3rd super to.

Hive 3 not so good.... it's on double brood and is packed full of brood & bees and on 3 supers since last week and will soon need another. Went through top box and then on to the bottom box, bees very calm all way through. 1/2 way through bottom box there was a ball of bees I smoked them and they were stinging the queen and killed her in front of me.

What did I do wrong? There was loads of fresh eggs and rammed with bias and she was last years queen. So best hive is now queenless. Will now have to let them hopefully get on and raise a new queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

there was a ball of bees I smoked them and they were stinging the queen and killed her in front of me.
So best hive is now queenless..

Or is it? it sounds pretty final but maybe, just maybe there's a supersedure queen in there, don't despair until you go in again in a few days to check for QC's

 

[Erichalfbee]

And double brood might better be inspected by looking at the bottom box first?

 

[drex]

I split my double broods and keep them separate and only recombine when inspection finished. Saves the queen jumping between boxes. If the bees are unsettled in a particular box after a minute or two, it is a good indication that queen is in the other box.

 

[Repwoc]

Last year one of my colonies was usurped by a swarm. I saw it happen and I opened the hive straight away to find a ball of bees that were trying to kill the incumbent queen. I managed to rescue her into a nuc and left them to it.

So it might not be something you have done. It could be a supersedure or an invasion - both of these will result in a Q+ colony.

 

[For want of a better word]

Sad but this is nature in front of you eyes,...

nothing you did wrong.

Chons da

 

[Courty]

And double brood might better be inspected by looking at the bottom box first?

What is the reasoning behind this please Dani?

Courty

 

[gp125john]

What is the reasoning behind this please Dani?

Courty

If you look in the bottom box first, the top box which you have placed to one side remains fairly undisturbed until you put it back on top to inspect it. If you did it the other way round you would have smoked a disproportionate number of bees in the bottom box, and annoyed them by inspecting the frames above them.

 

[Antipodes]

Queen balling is a strange one. Year before last I did a routine inspection of a colony at a good time and on a decent weather day and found them balling to death a perfectly good queen. Put the lid back on that hive and inspected the one next to it and couldn't believe it, the workers were balling that queen to death too.

 

[Big robert]

What did you do to fix this

 

[Antipodes]

Well I stopped inspecting any more colonies at that site for a while and left them to make new queens....but went in after about 5 days to remove all but one queen cell leaving the best looking open one.

 

[Courty]

If you look in the bottom box first, the top box which you have placed to one side remains fairly undisturbed until you put it back on top to inspect it. If you did it the other way round you would have smoked a disproportionate number of bees in the bottom box, and annoyed them by inspecting the frames above them.

That makes good sense, thank you.

Courty

 

[citrus]

And double brood might better be inspected by looking at the bottom box first?

that is a good point I have never thought about .... but I thought by doing it top down you are more likely to get a queen to go into the bottom box and so 'safer' - the top box would need to have queen excluder top and bottom to prevent HM getting crushed ..no ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I thought by doing it top down you are more likely to get a queen to go into the bottom box and so 'safer'

She can just as easily pop down into the bottom box then straight back up onto the frame you've just inspected. a lot of sense in splitting the boxes before starting

 

[citrus]

She can just as easily pop down into the bottom box then straight back up onto the frame you've just inspected. a lot of sense in splitting the boxes before starting

so basically to confirm ...

paynes roof upside down ... super's on the roof at 45 angle ... then spare queen exluder on top of those supers .......

..... then place the top brood box (with its queen excluder still stuck on ) on top of the super stack with qx to stop HM wandered into the supers...

then inspect the bottom brood box ...

cool will do that going forward (assuming I have that sequence correct)

 

[Swarm]

If you look in the bottom box first, the top box which you have placed to one side remains fairly undisturbed until you put it back on top to inspect it. If you did it the other way round you would have smoked a disproportionate number of bees in the bottom box, and annoyed them by inspecting the frames above them.

You can split the boxes and put the top one to one side with very little smoke and the bottom one will always be more of a problem as it's occupied by all the returning, foraging bees and the reason a lot don't look through those frames unless swarm cells detected in the top.
I think that is what Dani was getting at.
Also what drex said, inspect boxes while they are split.

 

[drex]

I have plenty of home made cover boards ( with no holes) , when I remove the top BB I stand it on an upturned cover board, giving extra space under the frames. I put a cover board on top of the box I am not inspecting, once the other has been gone through I place the top cover board over that one, and look through the other. Whether I do top or bottom BB first depends on what I am checking for.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

then spare queen exluder on top of those supers .......

crown board is doing nothing at this point - just put that on the supers.

 

[simonforeman]

Thanks guys for all the guidance... I will be inspecting each bb separately from now on. Still a bit frustrated that my best hive is now queenless and will have to go through the process of making a new queen and lose that brood time. I suppose it shouldn't swarm now as it is very strong at the moment.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thanks guys for all the guidance... I will be inspecting each bb separately from now on. Still a bit frustrated that my best hive is now queenless and will have to go through the process of making a new queen and lose that brood time. I suppose it shouldn't swarm now as it is very strong at the moment.

you could still be looking at a perfect supersedure. Remember, in most cases it's not the colony leaving it to chance and letting the queens fight it out (and remember in a perfect supersedure the two will have been living happily side by side the whole winter) it's the bees that take care of 'disposal'