Bad Year For Jaspers

[Swarm]

I despair a bit with the kill, kill, kill approach to wasps

It's all some understand.

 

[MartinL]

Farmers kill crows that peck the lambs into exhaustion and eat their eyes out. .

Not in 2019 they haven't.
At least not legally,
Mr Packham saw to that. Got death threats from nutters for his trouble too, then saw "the brave Gendarmes" run in the opposite direction (what with the Chief constable riding in the hunt and all that).

Having said that there really are loads of crows around at the moment, with no natural predators, what is the prospect for Lambing next year?

 

[Millet]

It's all some understand.

It is by far not all i understand..if they become a problem or nest near my hives they go simple as that..if they nest away from my hives and leave me alone i leave them alone..

 

[enrico]

Not in 2019 they haven't.
At least not legally,
Mr Packham saw to that. Got death threats from nutters for his trouble too, then saw "the brave Gendarmes" run in the opposite direction (what with the Chief constable riding in the hunt and all that).

Having said that there really are loads of crows around at the moment, with no natural predators, what is the prospect for Lambing next year?

I think you can apply for a personal licence to shoot them. That's how I read it!
E

 

[MartinL]

What is the best way to destroy an "in the ground" or in a stone wall" type nest?

Pyrethrin, on a small tray, at the entrance where they'll take it in with them.

I pour petrol in and hope

That's not good for the soil or safe for anyone in the vicinity, EXPLOSIVE when it reaches 7% in air.
1/2 the people in your local burns unit at this time of year will have found that out the hard way!

 

[MartinL]

I think you can apply for a personal licence to shoot them. That's how I read it!
E

Yes but wasn't the issuing of licences curtailed this year due to Mr P's campaign?

 

[Beefriendly]

Yes but wasn't the issuing of licences curtailed this year due to Mr P's campaign?

No, because before Mr. P's campaign you didn't need one.

 

[SDM]

I am an advocate of wasps being a means of natural selection and recommend traps only as a last resort. But this is a complex dilemna for which there is no simple answer.

Wasps will expose weaker bee hives especially those that are diseased. In doing so they provide a valuable natural quarantining function not least because they will rob out contaminated honey from diseased hives to reduce risk of transmission. .

What's natural about what we do ? Many of us will still be making splits in small units and raising queens In even smaller ones a month from now. No purpose is served whatsoever by your type of natural selection.
You rather overstate their " valuable" contribution in robbing diseased hives too. You can not seriously be suggesting that wasps with their small coliny numbers, almost total lack of ability to focus communally on food sources and their simple self serving dietary requirements are ever going to be a significant factor in robbed out hives compared to other honeybee colonies.

 

[Karol]

What's natural about what we do ? Many of us will still be making splits in small units and raising queens In even smaller ones a month from now. No purpose is served whatsoever by your type of natural selection.

Here we go again

There's nothing like taking something out of context just to do a nigel.

You rather overstate their " valuable" contribution in robbing diseased hives too. You can not seriously be suggesting that wasps with their small coliny numbers, almost total lack of ability to focus communally on food sources and their simple self serving dietary requirements are ever going to be a significant factor in robbed out hives compared to other honeybee colonies.

Wasps recruit very effectively to food sources contrary to the research papers you've read written by field biologists who set experiments not understanding wasp behaviour in the first place. During the sweet feeding phase wasp nest are largely empty because most of the adults are out feeding so there's few wasps in the nest to communicate to. So communication happens during times of aggregation. That's the only reason why recruitment at the nest is slow but that also plays into the hands of IWM because if you successfully deal with a programmed feeding swarm of wasps it takes days for other wasps to find the food source again.

And yes, wasps are very capable of overwhelming a hive and robbing it out in short order. By all means suggest otherwise and lose credibility with those beekeepers who have lost hives to wasps.

 

[SDM]

Here we go again

There's nothing like taking something out of context just to do a nigel.



Wasps recruit very effectively to food sources contrary to the research papers you've read written by field biologists who set experiments not understanding wasp behaviour in the first place. During the sweet feeding phase wasp nest are largely empty because most of the adults are out feeding so there's few wasps in the nest to communicate to. So communication happens during times of aggregation. That's the only reason why recruitment at the nest is slow but that also plays into the hands of IWM because if you successfully deal with a programmed feeding swarm of wasps it takes days for other wasps to find the food source again.

And yes, wasps are very capable of overwhelming a hive and robbing it out in short order. By all means suggest otherwise and lose credibility with those beekeepers who have lost hives to wasps.

If your context wasn't beekeeping, you really should make yourself clearer.
So where are these aggregations if the nest is empty?
And by what method do they recruit to a food source and for what purpose?
My credibility with beekeepers unable to defend full colonies against a few wasps is the least of my concerns . I've seen a few(7) nucs "finished off" by wasps in my first year, but in the robbing out wasps were outnumbered hundreds to one by honeybees.

 

[Karol]

If your context wasn't beekeeping, you really should make yourself clearer.

So where are these aggregations if the nest is empty?

The main aggregation happens at dusk. The size of other aggregations which happen during the day are dependant on the availability of food. If food is plentiful the aggregations are small and infrequent. If food is scarce the aggregations become more concentrated.

And by what method do they recruit to a food source and for what purpose?

Wasps are complex social insects that use a number of communication tools both at the nest and locally to the food source. They are able to identify conspecifics and liaise with them.

This paper and associated bibliography might be of interest:

https://tinyurl.com/y254dee5

As to the purpose: to eat of course. For wasps this isn't a simple matter. One of the reasons why wasps recruit nestmates is to protect food sources from other wasp colonies with whom they are in competition. Not so much of an issue with overwhelming rich food sources but certainly a factor with smaller food sources.

My credibility with beekeepers unable to defend full colonies against a few wasps is the least of my concerns .

You express such warmth to your bretheren - really so touching!

I've seen a few(7) nucs "finished off" by wasps in my first year, but in the robbing out wasps were outnumbered hundreds to one by honeybees.

Sorry to hear. Hopefully they weren't diseased.

 

[SDM]

The main aggregation happens at dusk. The size of other aggregations which happen during the day are dependant on the availability of food. If food is plentiful the aggregations are small and infrequent. If food is scarce the aggregations become more concentrated.

Wasps are complex social insects that use a number of communication tools both at the nest and locally to the food source. They are able to identify conspecifics and liaise with them.

As to the purpose: to eat of course. For wasps this isn't a simple matter. One of the reasons why wasps recruit nestmates is to protect food sources from other wasp colonies with whom they are in competition. Not so much of an issue with overwhelming rich food sources but certainly a factor with smaller food sources.

You express such warmth to your bretheren - really so touching!

Sorry to hear. Hopefully they weren't diseased.

So they are conspecific but recruit to compete with other wasps colonies. Either, one of us has not understood " conspecific" or that's entirely contradictory.
Would a honeybee colony not qualify as an overwhelmingly rich food source ?

I've read the study you linked and a few of those in the bibliography and mentioned drumming in previous threads. A signal to tell wasps there is a food source "somewhere " with a an odour cue to what it is, is hardly comparable to the efficiency of honeybee communication on food sources. When taken into account with my other points on wasp colony size, your own mention of limited aggregations etc.
So I'll reiterate.
"You can not seriously be suggesting that wasps with their small coliny numbers, almost total lack of ability to focus communally on food sources and their simple self serving dietary requirements are ever going to be a significant factor in robbed out hives compared to honeybee colonies."

 

[EJackson]

This paper and associated bibliography might be of interest:

Wasps recruit very effectively to food sources contrary to the research papers you've read written by field biologists who set experiments not understanding wasp behaviour in the first place.

How to you accept research papers though you then discredit those that don't match your opinion?

 

[drex]

My credibility with beekeepers unable to defend full colonies against a few wasps is the least of my concerns . I've seen a few(7) nucs "finished off" by wasps in my first year, but in the robbing out wasps were outnumbered hundreds to one by honeybees.

In my second year, I had a full colony totally wiped out by wasps. Opening the hive it contained hundreds of them and not one bee. It was a pitiful sight. I have since learned and do not find them a great problem now. I use my home made high efficiency traps and appropriate sized entrance and am careful not to spill any honey or sugar.

 

[SDM]

In my second year, I had a full colony totally wiped out by wasps. Opening the hive it contained hundreds of them and not one bee. It was a pitiful sight. I have since learned and do not find them a great problem now. I use my home made high efficiency traps and appropriate sized entrance and am careful not to spill any honey or sugar.

You should start breeding bees if you are isolated enough not to attract robber bees to free honey at what I assume was pretty late in the season.

 

[Millet]

Found another 20yards from the last one which is 30 yards from the hives..too close for comfort and will be dealt with later..

 

[Show me the honey]

Found another 20yards from the last one which is 30 yards from the hives..too close for comfort and will be dealt with later..

Think you need to change your location to wasp country

 

[Millet]

I knew it was going to be bad when they started bothering the hives so early.

 

[Millet]

To date the wasps are an absolute nightmare..the hives are fine but the bee shed is not..the wasps managed to find a gap in the door and are now in swarm feeding mode..I have brood boxes with extracted frames in there and also a super with blown frames in it..I opened the shed two days ago and there must have been 50+ wasps inside so I had too suit up and deploy the zapper tennis racket..the hole in the shed is now blocked up and the two wasp traps placed infront of the once hole are quickly filling up..I just wish I could find the nest and poison it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

To date the wasps are an absolute nightmare..the hives are fine but the bee shed is not..the wasps managed to find a gap in the door and are now in swarm feeding mode..I have brood boxes with extracted frames in there and also a super with blown frames in it..I opened the shed two days ago and there must have been 50+ wasps inside so I had too suit up and deploy the zapper tennis racket..the hole in the shed is now blocked up and the two wasp traps placed infront of the once hole are quickly filling up..I just wish I could find the nest and poison it.

You’re lucky the bees didn’t find it. You’d have more than 50