Backfilling the brood nest / box

[RichardK]

Two of my colonies were on 7 frames of brood 2 weeks ago. They both have supers on however I just can't get the bees to move up (50/50 drawn frames /undrawn in the super). The bees are currently backfilling with nectar hence brood is reducing fairly quickly. Two days ago I did a test in removing 2 frames of stores and replaced with one full wax sheet and one starter strip. The wax sheet has been 80% drawn out in each hive and they are ..... using it to store nectar. The strips are being drawn out with worker cells but look as though they'll be used for nectar - but I'm not 100% on this. Both queens are from 2022.

Is there anything else I can try to temp them to move up? Give them a part filled super from a different colony for example.. or at least some part filled frames?

I'm wondering if they are edging towards swarming and hence filling the brood frames in order to reduce laying from the queen and getting her in shape to fly. If that's the case I may as well split them now, move on, and forget a honey crop from those hives (it's all over for me where I am in 6 weeks anyhow).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

what's the weather been like with you the last few weeks?

 

[RichardK]

I was away for 10 days until Tuesday just gone, so not too sure. Seems like it rained a little bit and was generally overcast I think.

 

[RichardK]

I should perhaps add, it's exceptionally dry here. Some lakes are empty, we're on water saving measures (hosepipe ban no filling of swimming pools, reduced watering for farmers) and some places which use local wells/ bore holes for village water supply have even run out and are managing from bottled water. Dryer than a dry thing pretty much.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They won't go up until they feel like it, I can see no barrier to them going up by what you've described, if the weather was pretty cold/wintery I'd say they were just hedging their bets and keeping the stores close to the brood - at the moment, with us, even though it's spring, it's cold on the whole and I've noticed this on quite a few hives around here - I have one colony which is bursting, nine frames of brood and two supers are jam packed with bees but they are keeping the stores close to the brood nest.
Of course, as you say they could be setting their house to swarming.
Without being there, I cannot tell but personally I wouldn't split on just seven frames of brood but just keep a close eye on how things develop.

 

[RichardK]

Thanks for that - much appreciated.

 

[Newbeeneil]

If mine don't want to go up I remove any QX for a week or so until they start drawing. It normally works.

 

[RichardK]

If mine don't want to go up I remove any QX for a week or so until they start drawing. It normally works.

That's an idea. I could move things around so that 1 has only undrawn comb & give it a go. Thanks for the idea - will get on it tomorrow.

 

[E&MBees]

I had one colony that refused to move up last year until I removed the queen excluder. Same thing has happened again this year, but to a different colony. Brood nest full of nectar. Removed it at the start of inspections, by the time I was packing up to leave, they were up in it in significant numbers.

 

[Antipodes]

Two of my colonies were on 7 frames of brood 2 weeks ago. They both have supers on however I just can't get the bees to move up (50/50 drawn frames /undrawn in the super). The bees are currently backfilling with nectar hence brood is reducing fairly quickly. Two days ago I did a test in removing 2 frames of stores and replaced with one full wax sheet and one starter strip. The wax sheet has been 80% drawn out in each hive and they are ..... using it to store nectar. The strips are being drawn out with worker cells but look as though they'll be used for nectar - but I'm not 100% on this. Both queens are from 2022.

Is there anything else I can try to temp them to move up? Give them a part filled super from a different colony for example.. or at least some part filled frames?

I'm wondering if they are edging towards swarming and hence filling the brood frames in order to reduce laying from the queen and getting her in shape to fly. If that's the case I may as well split them now, move on, and forget a honey crop from those hives (it's all over for me where I am in 6 weeks anyhow).

You're almost the same latitude north of the equator in Perpignan, as I am south of the equator, but your climate is much warmer in summer. I agree that with last years queens and with what you mention as to the conditions, activity and the time of year there, that they may be preparing to swarm as you suspect, so I'd probably do what you suggest in your last paragraph, but perhaps not quite yet. I'd keep up regular inspections.

 

[RichardK]

You're almost the same latitude north of the equator in Perpignan, as I am south of the equator, but your climate is much warmer in summer. I agree that with last years queens and with what you mention as to the conditions, activity and the time of year there, that they may be preparing to swarm as you suspect, so I'd probably do what you suggest in your last paragraph, but perhaps not quite yet. I'd keep up regular inspections.

I think today I'll try removing the queen excluders as suggested and see what happens. Swarming season for me starts now for 4 weeks. Putting in the starter strip was also a test to see if they'd build drone comb which I was pleased to see they aren't....learnt something there. So, drones are all done & ready, overcast again today, awful forecast tomorrow...sunny, but windy from Monday. Then come next weekend sunny, calm weather in the mid to high 20's supposedly all week. I guess that could be when the swarming really starts to happen?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes taking off the WX usually works for me if there is an income. Most of mine are now running without a QX for the season.

 

[Do224]

Yes taking off the WX usually works for me if there is an income. Most of mine are now running without a QX for the season.

I’m running mine without queen excluders as well this year. Am I just likely to see brood in the first super or will the queen likely lay further up?

Also does this setup reduce/delay swarming significantly or not much difference?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mine are 14x12 so I see brood only in the first super generally.
As for delaying swarming I would hazard, yes if the brood nest is already getting congested.

 

[RichardK]

Yes taking off the WX usually works for me if there is an income. Most of mine are now running without a QX for the season.

And if you take it off planning to put it back on again, how do you judge when to put it back on?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Once off I tend to leave off till the brood nest contracts in late summer. but a queen won’t cross a super full of honey so you can always put the QX back when there is one

 

[elainemary]

They won't go up until they feel like it, I can see no barrier to them going up by what you've described, if the weather was pretty cold/wintery I'd say they were just hedging their bets and keeping the stores close to the brood - at the moment, with us, even though it's spring, it's cold on the whole and I've noticed this on quite a few hives around here - I have one colony which is bursting, nine frames of brood and two supers are jam packed with bees but they are keeping the stores close to the brood nest.
Of course, as you say they could be setting their house to swarming.
Without being there, I cannot tell but personally I wouldn't split on just seven frames of brood but just keep a close eye on how things develop.

Totally agree and my observations of colonies especially the higher elevation ones, are just the same. Keeping stores close to brood nest. Reluctant to move up - when I add a wet super they jump up to it and dry it out then recede back into the brood nest.
We need a blast of warm weather!
From your experience how does this spring compare to others you’ve experienced?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

From your experience how does this spring compare to others you’ve experienced?

much slower than most springs - I've seen worse when we were feeding well into May, on the whole there's not much income out there, they're storing but most colonies need supers for space rather than storing.

 

[Newbeeneil]

And if you take it off planning to put it back on again, how do you judge when to put it back on?

I put mine back on once they are drawing and filling the comb with nectar.

 

[Erichalfbee]

much slower than most springs

It’s warm and humid today and we are escaping the rain. Bees are all over the hawthorn.