Autumn mistake and learning from them.

[jeff33]

I will put my hand up as guilty of poor beekeeping. All my hives have used their stores and are now on fondant. I did feed in the autumn but obviously not enough and did heft my hives. I obviously don't have the hang of this as yet so I will purchase scales to weigh them next winter and will do more research into how much they need for overwintering.

Are suitcase scales any good? Can I rely on hooking the underneath of the floor or need to fix some hook?

 

[enrico]

I put a large cup hook on either side of the floor at the rear. I then put a chain between the two hooks and attach luggage scales. I don't weigh opposite sides, I just multiply by two and that gives me a rough guide. Weigh a totally empty hive to get an idea. Then allow for bees and wet wood.
Don't worry, it all come with experience but at least you have given fondant in time. Many on this forum will give fondant just in case and it often is not needed.
E

 

[Anduril]

Another method using luggage scales, afix a long screw each side of the floor, then attach a keyring spring to the luggage scales, hook over the screws and weigh each side. After doing that, heft the hive at the back to get used to the weight.

 

[jeff33]

Thanks both.

 

[fatshark]

Alternatively .... to avoid having all sorts of screws or hooks sticking out of your floors so things cannot be stacked together or whatever ... drill a 6mm hole through the side of the floor and attach a 6mm bolt to a strong piece of polypropylene 'string' attached to the luggage scale. Slot the screw into the hole and lift gently ... voila.

 

[Ian123]

Dont worry jeff weve all cocked up before.....I would say Autumns are getting longer for sure and i had bees bring in ivy pollen into December. Its just a case of being pro-active/checking and i am happy to still be feeding in Nov if its needed and weather permits, if you look at the old advice you should be well done by then. Some hives will suffer from wasps/robbing or still be laying burning up stores. If you do feed and you get a cold snap and it warms up again check the feeders, i find a few hard frosts and the bees ignore the syrup even if it turns mild again. I just add a bit of warm syrup and trickle a bit back down onto them. In terms of late autumn management always check outer frames, when feeding bees will pack the frames next to the brood nest first. Even when bees are stuffed in a box outer frames may only get half full let alone if they are rattling around with loads of space. Simply push any empty or half full frames up against the brood area whilst you are feeding during inspections...If your really lucky the following week you may have a patch of brood surounded by stores or at the very least a frame full of stores, keep going till the box is full. Like i said at least you are checking, i have heard many times beeks say ive just been down to check my bees and they are dead(IN APRIL)

 

[jeff33]

Interesting, I have never carefully checked where they store syrup and juggle frames accordingly, definitely something for next year. I stopped feeding at the end of October but seen as mine where very active until the end of November that was perhaps the mistake. I think I will probably listen to my bees rather than the books... Or BBKA

 

[Curly green fingers]

Hi Jeff I wanted to add that having clear crown boards have been a great asset for me this winter you can see what frames are full of stores .
Also I've noticed if there's capped stores on top of the frames then that's a sure sign the frame is full of stores ( early winter).
A combination of weighing regularly and observations through the crown board has helped no end

 

[thedozzer]

Hi Jeff I wanted to add that having clear crown boards have been a great asset for me this winter you can see what frames are full of stores .
Also I've noticed if there's capped stores on top of the frames then that's a sure sign the frame is full of stores ( early winter).
A combination of weighing regularly and observations through the crown board has helped no end

CGF Im so glad you said that, as i went and had a look through the crown board today, they are in 12 x 14 and have a good 3-4 frames of capped stores on the outside frames but didn't see many bees, until i shone a torch down and could see 5 seams of bees.
they have never been a big colony but look to be doing OK and we didn't stop feeding Syrup until mid December.

To the OP, dont think it was necessarily a mistake, there is so much conflicting information about what to do and when. Plus the bees have their own agenda and just do what they feel like irrelevant of what the books, calender & temperature would suggest!

 

[jeff33]

Maybe we will call it a miscalculation then. What also makes it trickier is that all hives are not the same and you don't want to overfeed as the queen may not have anywhere to lay limiting the amount of overwintering bees.

 

[philipm]

I fed my bees in the autumn until they would take no more.The hives were stuffed full of stores but last week I started feeding fondant as they had become a bit light, I don't put it down to poor beekeeping but to the fact that the weather patterns in the last few years have changed the bees no longer seem to cluster for as long if at all so therefore use up more of their stores.

 

[Ian123]

Thats true to a certain extent if you are firing in litres of the stuff in sept, by the time late Nov comes along they are shutting down anyway and will just back fill shrinking the brood nest. I give late nucs little and often, until the weather dictates i cant. I dont know how many hives you have but sort your syrup making routine out, so many faff around boiling water knocking up small amounts. Most 18v battery drills will easily turn a paint wisk in a large bucket or container 20L say, make with hot water straight from tap wisk for 2 min walk away have a cup up tea(not forgetting cover on bucket) wisk again for a minute. Mixture will look cloudy but that will clear, at the worst it may just need a quick wisk before bucketing up but thats it for 2.1......no mess in house but my garage floor can get a little sticky......if thats not a big enough volume for you get 1 of those plastic 45 gallon drums and a bigger wisk/drill. Making syrup in Autumn in any quantity i always add a little thymol, stops it going off and helps the bees. It just makes the chore of feeding so much easier if you have the stuff to hand and in volume

 

[Wingy]

My first winter with full hives and what did this year was left them with a full super of honey then removed the QX leaving them on brood & half Langstroth, not needed to feed yet but have some fondant to hand just in case.

 

[enrico]

Wingy, if you left the super over the bb then in spring the queen will be laying in it. When the weather warms up I add a queen excluder between the two boxes and make sure the queen is under it that frees up the super again. If it is a prolific queen I consider double brood or brood and a half. I try to go into winter with the super under the brood box.
E

 

[jeff33]

I tend to do the same if I overwinter with a super above. First proper inspection I had a QE making sure the queen is below so super is brood free by the time the spring flow arrives. If there is still brood and I need a 2nd bb I put it below the first one so I don't break up the brood nest.

 

[jeff33]

Hi Jeff I wanted to add that having clear crown boards have been a great asset for me this winter you can see what frames are full of stores .
Also I've noticed if there's capped stores on top of the frames then that's a sure sign the frame is full of stores ( early winter).
A combination of weighing regularly and observations through the crown board has helped no end[/QUOTE

Thanks CGF
I do like the clear boards and got them on my nucs... I looked at buying more for my full hives but when I saw the price of perspex I thought bugger that, I will look through the feeding hole with a torch if needs be. It is just covered with a bit of ply.

 

[Wingy]

Wingy, if you left the super over the bb then in spring the queen will be laying in it. When the weather warms up I add a queen excluder between the two boxes and make sure the queen is under it that frees up the super again. If it is a prolific queen I consider double brood or brood and a half. I try to go into winter with the super under the brood box.
E

Thanks for the advice. It was my plan to add the QX at first spring inspection. I left all 3 hives as brood + super of honey this year. 1 hive has a very prolific Q and was on double brood before being condensed down for winter, this particular hive were still out flying the other day at 4 degree C
Wingy

 

[B+.]

I do like the clear boards and got them on my nucs... I looked at buying more for my full hives but when I saw the price of perspex I thought bugger that, I will look through the feeding hole with a torch if needs be. It is just covered with a bit of ply.

This is what I use (https://www.screwfix.com/p/capital-...-clear-1000ga-4-x-15m/2665p?_requestid=129867 ).
A roll of this will make hundreds of them

 

[enrico]

This is what I use (https://www.screwfix.com/p/capital-...-clear-1000ga-4-x-15m/2665p?_requestid=129867 ).
A roll of this will make hundreds of them

I presume you staple it to a frame B+

 

[Curly green fingers]

This is what I use (https://www.screwfix.com/p/capital-...-clear-1000ga-4-x-15m/2665p?_requestid=129867 ).
A roll of this will make hundreds of them

Looks good b+ , it wouldn't take a feeder on top but would be very useful for observation purposes. over winter etc..