Attitudes to oxalic acid treatment in USA

[Finman]

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Here is text from year 2010 USA entomology edu
http://entomology.unl.edu/faculty/ellispubs/Pesticides.pdf

Two organic acids, formic acid and oxalic
acid, are attractive options as varroacides
because both are naturally present in honey
(Bogdanov, 2006; Rademacher and Harz,
2006). Formic acid is registered with Section 3
approval in the USA under the trade name
MiteAway II! (NOD, 2009).

MiteAway II!is a fumigant varroacide that is packaged in a
slow release pad. Formic acid likely kills Varroa
by inhibiting electron transport in the mitochondria
through binding of cytochrome c
Honey bee toxicity – USA 7
oxidase, thereby inhibiting energy metabolism
(Keyhani and Keyhani, 1980) and may produce
a neuroexcitatory effect on arthropod
neurons (Song and Scharf, 2008). Formic acid
can harm honey bees by reducing worker
longevity (Underwood and Currie, 2003) and
harming brood survival (Fries, 1991).

Oxalic acid is registered for use as a varroacide
in Canada and Europe, but not in the
USA.

In Canada it is trickled over honey bees
in a sugar syrup solution (Canadian Honey
Council, 2005) or sublimated using a vaporizer
(Varrox, 2007). Research has shown it
to be highly effective against Varroa in cool
climates when brood is not present (Aliano
and Ellis, 2008). The mode of action of oxalic
acid against Varroa is unknown, but direct
contact between Varroa and oxalic acid
is required (Aliano and Ellis, 2008). Oxalic
acid treatments administered in water are ineffective
(Charrière and Imdorf, 2002), but administration
in sugar water improves efficacy
by adhering the active ingredient to the bees
(Aliano and Ellis, 2008). In mammals, oxalic
acid interfereswith mitochondrial electron
transport, probably through interaction with
complex II or IV, leading to increased production
of reactive oxygen species and to kidney
toxicity (Cao et al., 2004; Meimaridou et al.,
2005). Repeated treatment of colonies with
oxalic acid can result in higher queenmortality
and a reduction in the amount of sealed brood
(Higes et al., 1999). The midguts of honey
bees fed oxalic acid in sugar water exhibited
an elevated level of cell death (Gregorc and
Smodisskerl, 2007), though in field conditions
bees will generally avoid consuming syrup
with oxalic acid (Aliano and Ellis, 2008).

Oxalic acid is readily available and inexpensive
in the USA for use as a wood bleach but it is not labeled for use in controlling Varroa.
Its easy availability from many sources
has limited the willingness of suppliers to undergo
the expensive and time-consuming registration
process.

 

[Finman]

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The last note tells that companies are not willing to pay labourous "approvement process" because Oxalic Acid will not be a business to sellers. So let it be "forbidden". It is too easy and cheap to get for anybody.

One thing in that paper is that the value of European research is zero.
Nanetti as a one leading varroa researchers has not been mentioned in referencies.
Reasearchers of Nebrasca are the only referenced researchers of oxalic acid.

USA has forgotten that they have very cold areas where European recommencdations work well.
The whole Alaska has a good brood brake and OA would be the best practice there.
If Florida and Texas - at the level of North Africa - cannot use those stuffs, it should not stop using them in Alaska.

After all, the game with business and approved varroa killing stuffs is strange.

In our country we have not approved anything, but we use European varroa group recommendations. I wonder why these researches cannot be made with tax money.
The main researchs has been made with tax money because the researchers are in the service of states. Their travelling has been payed too by states.

.

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[RoofTops]

The same situation as in the UK. Because it was not "authorised" it could not be "officially" recommended by the bee inspectors. This has led to a lot of confusion and mis-information. Which we see repeated here time after time.

 

[oliver90owner]

Repeated treatment of colonies with
oxalic acid can result in higher queenmortality
and a reduction in the amount of sealed brood

You missed highlighting the down-sides.

 

[RoofTops]

Aspirin can also have some bad side effects but it is still a useful medicine.

 

[oliver90owner]

This has led to a lot of confusion and mis-information. Which we see repeated here time after time.

I was using it long before the bee inspectors agreed it was an effective option. It is just that I choose not to use it now, unless necessary (because of the possible downsides).

But there again, I do more than enough to reduce the varroa loadings at any appropriate opportunity without resorting to trying to kill just a few varroa in the middle of winter. In other words, I don't need to use it often (not once in the last five years). That must demonstrate that it is not a totally necessary treatment, n'est pas? No winter colony mortality due to varroa in the one dead-out checked in the last 5 years. Not yet checked my second winter loss in that time frame, but not expecting it to be varroa-related.

I am at least in the company of several posters on the forum and that guy who wrote articles in B**craft for a year (Wally Shaw?). Some may be confused; I am not confused at all. Some may be misinformed; more like un-informed on other methods of varroa control - I am sure there are a lot out there who would not trickle, if only they knew.

 

[drstitson]

"Aspirin can also have some bad side effects but it is still a useful medicine."

and of course salicylic acid is used by some beekeepers to treat "May Disease"
(1g per kilo of syrup) - the alternative being vincotto infused with lavender, rosemary and sage (personally i'd prefer keeping the latter as a cooking sauce!).

 

[Finman]

Repeated treatment of colonies with
oxalic acid can result in higher queenmortality
and a reduction in the amount of sealed brood

You missed highlighting the down-sides.

Rubbish, pure rubbish

Trickling is not recommended to brood hive, because it violates badly brood.
It was said in very first researches. It does not make higher queen mortality.

Another thing is that recipe said 2 years ago: DO NOT REPEAT

Now it is sperading here that you can make treatment in October and second treatment in March after cleansing flight.

.Some losses of bees but no affect on Spring build up. No queen losses.
Queen losses has be reported in Formic acid when out temp is over 25C.

.
Come on with time Oliver!!! You are not that old.
.

 

[Finman]

This has led to a lot of confusion and mis-information. Which we see repeated here time after time.

I was using it long before the bee inspectors agreed it was an effective option. .

.

to trying to kill just a few varroa in the middle of winter. In other words, I don't need to use it often (not once in the last five years). .

You are totally wriong. But it is your choice to be wrong and nothing will change it. (=stupid)

.

That must demonstrate that it is not a totally necessary treatment,.

Of course not. It is just a covenient alternative.

.

No winter colony mortality due to varroa in the one dead-out checked in the last 5 years. .

When we talk about varroa treatment, we do not talk about Oliver.


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I am sure there are a lot out there who would not trickle, if only they knew.

Everybody knows that . 15 years ago no one trickled with oxalic acid.

 

[Finman]

No winter colony mortality due to varroa in the one dead-out checked in the last 5 years. .

That does not mean that others should stop their varroa treatments and believe your stories.

You are a real super beek!

I have lost tens of hives to varroa. That is why I have a holy battle against missleaders.

last year I lost 30% of my hives because Oxalic acid treatment is not enough to keep out mite losses. I have never had so small winter clusters as during trickling years. " 2 weeks ago I realized it.

But it does not make OA not a bit worser. I have trust on it too much. I have to treat hives in August too to protect winter cluster brood and emerged bees.

.

 

[Hivemaker.]

last year I lost 30% of my hives because Oxalic acid treatment is not enough to keep out mite losses. I have never had so small winter clusters as during trickling years. " 2 weeks ago I realized it.
.

Same here,and i realized it three or four years ago.

 

[BKF Admin]

without resorting to trying to kill just a few varroa in the middle of winter.

I thought the knock down rate from OA while bees are clustered was something like 98% plus while Thymol was much lower due to capped brood in Autumn?

I dont like using it because you are playing Russian roulette with the queen while also killing any colony with a sniff of Nosema.

 

[oliver90owner]

Admin,

Yes, it has a high efficacy, but if there are few mites in the first place, it will only kill a few mites at most.

Most times, not enough for me to get in a tizz about, or taking the added risks. They can be easily sorted, later, by other means.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

I I dont like using it because you are playing Russian roulette with the queen while also killing any colony with a sniff of Nosema.

You just have wrong knowledge and you are going to keep it.'

My boy, who is now orthopedig surgeon, tpld that there was a lecture about issue, how medicine doctors get their new knowledge how Hippocrates says it.

It revieled out in a research that the the most important is who says and not what it is said.

 

[Finman]

Admin,

or taking the added risks.

What risk and what is added?

Oliver, take you pills. You make knowledge from nothing.

 

[Skyhook]

Aspirin can also have some bad side effects but it is still a useful medicine.

If I have a headache and take paracetamol, does that mean I'm wrong for not taking aspirin? Ibuprofen works better than aspirin for some people, but not as well for me.

The important thing is to think carefully about what you take, and take something suitable. There is no single answer.

So can we play nice?

 

[Finman]

Admin,

Yes, it has a high efficacy, but if there are few mites in the first place, it will only kill a few mites at most.

The best in idea is that when the hive has few mites left after Autumn treatment, you can easily those few mites down. Varroa douples itsef in a month.


'March April........ May..... June.... July... August.. September.. October
10........ 20........ 40........ 80........160........ 320........640........ 1280

30........ 60........ 120........240........480........960........1920........3840


If you have 30 mites after winter, you have a heavy load in late Summer.

Mites will die in the same realation as bees. If the cluster looses 50% of bees, dead rate of varroa is 50%.

 

[Finman]

.
I have written this few times

Varroa control in Denmark 2005
questionaire
http://www.biavl.dk/index.php?Itemid=50&id=114&option=com_content&task=view

Formic acid is used by all beekeepers, but in different ways. The use of the krämer board is the most predominant method. Used by 60,0% of the beekeepers. The use of free formic acid is also common used. Several beekeepers remarks that the free formic acid is used only in nearby apiaries. The nassenheider evaporator is used by 15,0%.

Oxalic acid is used by all beekeepers except 2. Spraying of oxalic acid was used some years ago, but is not used anymore. Trickling is the dominant method. Evaporation of oxalic acid was only used by one beekeeper. This beekeeper used this method as the only treatment.

 

[Black Comb]

A few mites at Christmas becomes a lot in the summer.

Also, Mark, have you any more detail on the terminal effects on hive with nosema?

 

[Winker]

The best in idea is that when the hive has few mites left after Autumn treatment, you can easily those few mites down. Varroa douples itsef in a month.


'March April........ May..... June.... July... August.. September.. October
10........ 20........ 40........ 80........160........ 320........640........ 1280

30........ 60........ 120........240........480........960........1920........3840


If you have 30 mites after winter, you have a heavy load in late Summer.

Mites will die in the same realation as bees. If the cluster looses 50% of bees, dead rate of varroa is 50%.

thats all good and fine if you only treat mites once a year. Do you never let the bees build drone comb on the bottom of some of your brood frames?