AS can't find queen

[drex]

As I was worried about swarming I had to look in my hives today, even though it was a bit on the chilly side, as the forecast here for next few days is rotten.

Two of the hives had charged queen cells. Of course these had to be the hives where I am yet to find and mark the queen, and both were on brood and half.

Have only done the Pagden method before. So thinking on my feet I did the following:

Moved boxes to one side.
Put empty BB on top of floor.
Shook all the bees into this box ( brushed them off frame containing the QC I want to keep).
Put one frame of brood ( checking that there were no QC's) in this box and then added foundation frames.
Put QE on top then honey super ( 6 good frames of stores - mainly unsealed), then another QE.
On top of that I put the brood and half containing all the old brood - good arcs of stores, and my chosen queen cell - about 3 days until it will be sealed

Closed up.

I have now thought that I will trap all hatching drones in the top boxes and the hatching virgin!

So in a few days time ( if I get a weather window) I suppose I can set up the top boxes by the side of the original site - as per Pagden, or replace top QE with a solid cover board on top of which I can put a shallow eke in which I have drilled an entry hole ( at the back of the hive). I think in theory either should work, but am out of my depth and would appreciate advice. I am looking to increase hive numbers.

Many thanks

 

[Beeline]

Drex

I built a similar highrise block to you but I had the queen in the bottom with new foundation, then honey super (QX either side) with brood and half above BUT, that was to get them to make QC which I could then take off and place in nucs. You appear to have QCs already so curious why you have not taken them off straight away? I'm not clear where your Queen was in this layout - in the bottom box or top?

Did mine last Saturday but was only able to inspect and move the QCs to nucs yesterday. I can tell you when I cracked open the crownboard a massive cloud of frustrated drones took to the air

 

[Mel]

Drex, that's a very useful revision note for me - I have 2 colonies in the same position, needing an AS but queens unmarked, and this just isn't the weather to go lhunting the queen ( the books alway say "choose a calm, mild day...").

All I need now is a break in the rain tomorrow or Monday. I'm not optimistic!

 

[SimonB]

Drex, I did exactly the same, except with single 14x12 brood, however as per advice in another thread, I split them a few hours later. There was a good distribution of bees between new brood box with foundation, parent colony and the super. I just hope that the queen is the new brood box. Brushing all bees off took longer and is trickier to make sure the frames are all cleared than I thought.

My intention was to feed the Q+ colony after the split but that left me with a dilemma of what to do with the super. I was of the understanding that supers went onto the Q+ colony, but it contained a decent amount of bees, it was getting late and the weather didn't look too good so didn't want to brush all the bees off the super frames. So I put the super onto the Q+ colony (4-5 part filled frames) and hope they have enough.

My hope is that there will be warm dry period over the next couple of days to inspect them and check that the queen is where she's supposed to be.

 

[RoofTops]

After shaking all the bees (and hopefully the queen as well!) into a brood box of foundation I would have put the brood and queen cell above a QX for an afternoon and then moved it onto another floor a few yards away from the original site. You have then done an AS without having to find the queen.

However, I would have preferred to split the brood and queen cells into a couple of nucs, rather than one hive, so the chances of getting a mated queen are increased. Given the current weather in most of the UK the virgin queens will need wellies and a brolly for their mating flights so having as many young queens emerging as possible is a good idea.

 

[Swarm]

Drex

I built a similar highrise block to you but I had the queen in the bottom with new foundation, then honey super (QX either side) with brood and half above BUT, that was to get them to make QC which I could then take off and place in nucs. You appear to have QCs already so curious why you have not taken them off straight away? I'm not clear where your Queen was in this layout - in the bottom box or top?

Did mine last Saturday but was only able to inspect and move the QCs to nucs yesterday. I can tell you when I cracked open the crownboard a massive cloud of frustrated drones took to the air

Queen and all bees in bottom box.
Left in place so house bees can return to the brood.

 

[drstitson]

"However, I would have preferred to split the brood and queen cells into a couple of nucs"

precisely what i've just done. swarm and a keiler containing an unexpected virgin that i delivered from it's cell have just this morning gone on a holiday to friends to take advantage of wildflower meadow and different drone population.

parent hive split into 2x 3 frame nucs and remaining bees used to fill aforementioned keiler plus 5 other mini-nucs, each of which now has a sealed QC.

 

[drex]

Thanks all,

I am going to look in again in few days time. One I think is likely to have made more swarm cells, and if so I will split into a couple of nucs, as they are my best colony and would certainly like to increase from them.

At that time I will set up the remaining boxes containing the old brood onto their own floors as per Pagden.
Just wanted to check for ideas as I was in unchartered territory.