Artificial swarm does it work

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In my vast experience of one AS of a swarmy strain (swarmed twice last year: this is the parent), I had success with one frame of brood in a box of starter strips, and shaking in a good amount of young bees. (I had taken Finman's point about drawn comb not curing swarm fever). One week later they had more or less drawn it and laid it and no swarm cells.
 
Vertical AS is good when colony is small, but if it has 4 boxes, it may become a riot, when you try to inspect the lower hive.

Good point, I've just got two broad boxes split, the lower box is on fresh foundation.

I big hive could be a pain.
 
We couldnt get conventional AS to work
We thought about it and found that what works for us(so far) is a modifed taranov.

A bucket a sheet and a square osb board are used. We shake the queen and the bees out on sheet, they accumulate under board. You leave them out for an hour, then pick up the board with shake them into their box (nearly all new foundation). The remainder on the sheet are "walked in"
The idea here is to mimic as close as possible the stages of a real swarm experience.i.e. the departure, the bivovac cluster, the migration to the new nest.

Obviously not practical in all apiaries

conventional AS procedures dont have the 3 stages above, they attempt to compress it all in to one
 
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Taranov has nothing to do with cutting swarming fewer.

Shaking swarm is dangerous to beginner if he shakes too much bees which ought to nurse brood and feed larvae.
 
Taranov has nothing to do with cutting swarming fewer.

Shaking swarm is dangerous to beginner if he shakes too much bees which ought to nurse brood and feed larvae.
unlike the original taranov the sheet & board are not near the hive (we do it 5m way)
They dont make any more swarm cells after this procedure.

We use highly insulated hives which give a larger margin of error on the number of nurse bees.
 
We use highly insulated hives which give a larger margin of error on the number of nurse bees.

Larvae need food juice. Larvae grow 1000 times in 5 days.

Rubbish speaking thst "large margin error". High insulation is not larva food.
I just warned about shook swarm.
 
.
Magic in the air

Taranov board is a fake. It gives no help in beekeeping. I use news papers onto where I shake bees. Then they climp via some stick up to the hive.
 
.
Magic in the air

Taranov board is a fake. It gives no help in beekeeping. I use news papers onto where I shake bees. Then they climp via some stick up to the hive.

Sound like you don't understand. I will post some pictures. Either after this year or if I find some old ones

Magic in the air? If something that works is magic to you, fine
 
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Sound like you don't understand. I will post some pictures. Either after this year or if I find some old ones

I have seen Taranov boards in google.


I use flying AS. Bees move to original site during 3 days. Bees which have not done orientation shoose new place. This all have worked fine.
.

Shaking needs allways sunshine that bees do not start to sleep in the lawn.
Flying AS is not weather dependent.
 
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A very good beekeeper advised me not to leave any brood - not even an egg - in the queen mother's box in order to stop the swarming instinct. So far, that has worked for me.

I usually put the queen in a brood box of new foundation and a frame of food, no eggs or brood. Works for me.

They wouldn't take eggs or brood on a natural swarm. I know it dramatically reduces the chance of them absconding but don't be surprised if it doesn't reduce swarming fever
 
If you'll forgive me saying this, I think you are making incredibly hard work of it. All you need is a floor and a spare brood box filled with comb and a few foundation.

If you find a colony with started queen cells and they rebuild them each time you knock them down, the colony is clearly determined to swarm.
The way that I deal with it is to remove all boxes from the parent colonies stand and replace them with the box of comb and foundation. Remove a comb from the centre and replace it with a comb of open larvae which you take from the parent colony (make sure the queen is NOT on this comb and that there are no swarm cells. To do this you will need to shake the bees off the comb and thoroughly inspect the comb).
All the foraging bees return to this box and will cluster on the comb of eggs/larvae which is all they have. You add a super of open honey or a deep frame of pollen and open honey. This gives them food incase the weather turns nasty. Place a cover ontop and leave it alone for 9 days.
The parent stock contains the queen, all of the brood (except the frame you took to put in the bottom box) and the nurse bees. Go through this hive thoroughly and remove any swarm cells. Now place it on the top (or behind if the stack is too tall) but pointing in the opposite direction. Any flying bees will return to the original site with its entrance to the front. Close the queenright stock up and leave them alone.
After 9 days, the queenless stock containing all the flying bees and the single frame of brood will have built emergency queen cells (it has no queen). You take this frame out and shake off any adhering bees, then you destroy all emergency cells. This frame is replaced with another frame of young larvae which you take from the queenright parent colony exactly as you did before.
The queenright parent colony will have lost all of its flying bees to the queenless nuc so it is unlikely that they will have any swarm cells but you can check to make sure. The population will have been drammatically reduced. After this you close the colonies up and leave them alone for another 9 days.
At this point you remove the single comb containing emergency cells and destroy them. The swarming impulse will have gone by this point so you can recombine the queenless box (containing only nectar/pollen that the flying bees have collected) with the queenright portion (containing the queen, brood and all the young bees) using a sheet of newspaper between the boxes. They will reunite and continue as a productive colony.
 
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I agree with the sensible ones. It does work.

Just follow the well tried and tested Pagden method - or do you really think you are the first to 'discover' it doesn't work, after all these years? All the rest, who have relied on it for the last umpteen years, are wrong?

I think we have a case, here, of 'get real'.
 
I agree with the sensible ones. It does work.

Just follow the well tried and tested Pagden method - or do you really think you are the first to 'discover' it doesn't work, after all these years? All the rest, who have relied on it for the last umpteen years, are wrong?

I think we have a case, here, of 'get real'.

The catch in the Pagden method is it requires you to find the queen. Queens that can be found every inspection suddenly become very elusive on AS day. (its either our bees or us).
Whatever the reason we had to find an alternative to the Pagden when the Queens go shy.
 
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The catch in the Pagden method is it requires you to find the queen.

When you have clipped queen, queen is often gone. Then you use queen cell.
The swarm part draws foundations and swarming fewer is away.

There are many styles in AS making and it may do your beekeeping as difficult as you like.

If you have new mated queen in nucs, they are very handy to handle AS hive parts.
 
If you'll forgive me saying this, I think you are making incredibly hard work of it. All you need is a floor and a spare brood box filled with comb and a few foundation.

If you find a colony with started queen cells and they rebuild them each time you knock them down, the colony is clearly determined to swarm.
The way that I deal with it is to remove all boxes from the parent colonies stand and replace them with the box of comb and foundation. Remove a comb from the centre and replace it with a comb of open larvae which you take from the parent colony (make sure the queen is NOT on this comb and that there are no swarm cells. To do this you will need to shake the bees off the comb and thoroughly inspect the comb).
All the foraging bees return to this box and will cluster on the comb of eggs/larvae which is all they have. You add a super of open honey or a deep frame of pollen and open honey. This gives them food incase the weather turns nasty. Place a cover ontop and leave it alone for 9 days.
The parent stock contains the queen, all of the brood (except the frame you took to put in the bottom box) and the nurse bees. Go through this hive thoroughly and remove any swarm cells. Now place it on the top (or behind if the stack is too tall) but pointing in the opposite direction. Any flying bees will return to the original site with its entrance to the front. Close the queenright stock up and leave them alone.
After 9 days, the queenless stock containing all the flying bees and the single frame of brood will have built emergency queen cells (it has no queen). You take this frame out and shake off any adhering bees, then you destroy all emergency cells. This frame is replaced with another frame of young larvae which you take from the queenright parent colony exactly as you did before.

The queenright parent colony will have lost all of its flying bees to the queenless nuc so it is unlikely that they will have any swarm cells but you can check to make sure. The population will have been drammatically reduced. After this you close the colonies up and leave them alone for another 9 days.
At this point you remove the single comb containing emergency cells and destroy them. The swarming impulse will have gone by this point so you can recombine the queenless box (containing only nectar/pollen that the flying bees have collected) with the queenright portion (containing the queen, brood and all the young bees) using a sheet of newspaper between the boxes. They will reunite and continue as a productive colony.

When bee inspector had me separate queen from foragers practically the whole forum criticized and said my colony would be destroyed. What is the difference between this and what I did? I put queen with brood and food on new stand and left foragers brood and food on a original site.
Well confused now.
Obee
 
When bee inspector had me separate queen from foragers practically the whole forum criticized and said my colony would be destroyed. What is the difference between this and what I did?
Obee

The time of year basically
 

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