Artificial swarm does it work

[snelgrove]

I have had bees alot of years, artificial swarm is the advice in books for beginners also taught to beginners. Every time I have done this with drawn comb or foundation the bees still build queen cells and swarm. Therefore I don't think it works, for a number of years I have performed shook swarms as described by R.O.B.Manley in his book Honey Farming, this satisfies the Swarming impulse. Artificial swarm dose not

 

[Finman]

That is interesting,because many of my friends have told that they have not succeeded to stop swarming with AS.

Last summer I made to 3 biggest hives AS, and when weathers were bad, and they had nothing to do, they started again cell making.

When I had Carniolan bees 10 years, they reacted poorly to AS.

But I could say that I trust on AS system with foundations. Brood hive is too easy to handle.

 

[SixFooter]

Hasn't worked for me either. I was going to try the Welsh BBKA snelgrove board method this year.

 

[snelgrove]

That is interesting,because many of my friends have told that they have not succeeded to stop swarming with AS.

Last summer I made to 3 biggest hives AS, and when weathers were bad, and they had nothing to do, they started again cell making.

When I had Carniolan bees 10 years, they reacted poorly to AS.

But I could say that I trust on AS system with foundations. Brood hive is too easy to handle.

I agree brood hive is sorted leave a QC young queen hatches layers. Hive with old queen builDS cells and swarms

 

[Thymallus]

Yup same here. My local bees are annual swarmers. AS simple delays them by a day or so. Not tried shook swarm.
Although my solution was to use bees that were bred to be less swarmy.

 

[B+.]

Therefore I don't think it works, for a number of years I have performed shook swarms as described by R.O.B.Manley in his book Honey Farming, this satisfies the Swarming impulse. Artificial swarm dose not

Is today groundhog day? I think we just had that discussion here
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33259&page=4

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Interesting question. I have only been keeping bees for 3 full years so I comment with limited experience. I have 4 of mine going through AS at the moment, as described by Wally Shaw in the new WBKA booklet. So far so good.

A fifth hive owned by a friend keeping his in the same location as mine was AS last week but in the traditional Pagden way with foundation. The bees in this AS still swarmed! Probably 3-4 days after the AS. They left leaving just 4 cups with eggs in.

I had mixed success last year with the Pagden method. Hence my experimenting with trying something different.....!

I have also tried my first shook swarm on one colony on the OSR (close your ears Finman ). In 15 days, it's drawn a 14x12 brood box full of new comb, has 6 frames containing brood and four with store which is now being capped off! So if the conditions were right, I would be happy to try that as a form of swarm control too.

 

[snelgrove]

Shook swarm, first find the queen assuming swarm cells are found. Place queen in a cage, clip cage works best. Now use a travelling box ventilated and proceed to shake bees from the stock that you would think would make a swarm from this. That's is about 5 frames I think. Drop the queen in and take them to another site 3 miles away and hive up as a swarm and feed.

 

[Roola]

A fifth hive owned by a friend keeping his in the same location as mine was AS last week but in the traditional Pagden way with foundation. The bees in this AS still swarmed! Probably 3-4 days after the AS. They left leaving just 4 cups with eggs in.

My Carniolans did exactly that this year. 3 days after AS, off they went, checked hive to find a small contingent of bees and 3 or 4 queen cups with eggs in.

 

[Madge]

I have had bees alot of years, artificial swarm is the advice in books for beginners also taught to beginners. Every time I have done this with drawn comb or foundation the bees still build queen cells and swarm. Therefore I don't think it works, for a number of years I have performed shook swarms as described by R.O.B.Manley in his book Honey Farming, this satisfies the Swarming impulse. Artificial swarm dose not

A very good beekeeper advised me not to leave any brood - not even an egg - in the queen mother's box in order to stop the swarming instinct. So far, that has worked for me.

 

[parkranger]

Crofter, can you please explain further?

 

[stuart]

Artificial swarm new method this year
Remove queen and place her in a new hive on her own, temporary seal entrance.
Split the 1st hive including swarm cells to nuc boxes to create new colonies
Remove first hive
The flying bees should fly to the queen

I added frames with food on and shook some nursery bees in to help the new queen hive

See what happens

 

[masterBK]

When I do an Pagden type artificial swarm I put a queen excluder between floor and broodchamber (containing the old queen) for a few days to stop them absconding. I also provide a 2 or 3 drawn combs in middle of BC for the queen to commerce laying in more or less right away. Bee are more likely to abscond if just on frames of foundation (the bees with the queen are flying bees ie older bees and the wax glands have more or less switched off and sometimes takes a day or two to get them activated again). Clipping the queen also useful .
In addition I always check a week later to see if they have built any more queen cells (often they do when in swarm fever) and usually if you destroy these then they don't tend to build any more.

 

[Madge]

Crofter, can you please explain further?

I mean, it's an AS as usual, but instead of the usual advice to find the queen and put her in a new box with the comb of brood on which she was found, put her in a new box but with absolutely no brood at all (but with some drawn comb, of course, as MB said).

 

[parkranger]

Got it, thanks very much. This thread, although not proven, answers many questions regarding failed A/s's over the last couple of years. I don't feel quite so inadequate now.

 

[Finman]

This thread, although not proven, answers many questions regarding failed A/s's over the last couple of years. I don't feel quite so inadequate now.

These guys have ideas to do that and that. I know that those ideas do not work, but I am enough tired to blown down all mad ideas on this forum.

For example, the AS needs a frame of brood, that it calms down in its new hive. Otherwise bees move to the brood hive when they find old home scent there. This one frame has been noticed good for decades.

It does not become better if beginners try all kind ideas.
But they must try.

 

[jd101k2000]

Well the most memorable way to learn how not to do things is to do them yourself and fail.

The best way to learn is from the good advice and wisdom of others.

On here there is so much advice that (often) the only way to find out which advice is good (and which isn't) is to try it and see what happens.

 

[domino]

Well the most memorable way to learn how not to do things is to do them yourself and fail.

The best way to learn is from the good advice and wisdom of others.

On here there is so much advice that (often) the only way to find out which advice is good (and which isn't) is to try it and see what happens.

Learning from your failures is indeed the best way.

I've not really had issues with ASs. Sometimes the original hive does start up new Queen Cells.

I've started using the vertical split this year just to see what happens.

 

[Finman]

.
i have done 35 years AS. First I did not mind to do it, and I tried something else.
But after years I believed finally, that do it at once, and do not think.

And after years advices are so wrong in this forum. Move the old hive 10 feed, and not 3 feed. It is do little thing what makes to fail it.

Magic in the air. It was enough exhausting to debate what to do with drone layer hive after handling them 50 years.

 

[Finman]

I've started using the vertical split this year just to see what happens.

Vertical AS is good when colony is small, but if it has 4 boxes, it may become a riot, when you try to inspect the lower hive.