Apivar

[Brosville]

looks like it to me too - and all it would take is one keen journalist to get wind it's being used, and doubts would be cast on the safety of honey as Amitraz is such a filthy chemical - I certainly wouldn't knowingly consume anything it's been used on!

 

[Stiffy]

Given the fact that this Apivar is a controlled substance how does the vet legally dispense it without a consultation?
Surely it should either be properly controlled or openly available to all?

The current situation sounds like a loophole being expolited.

There are no 'loopholes being exploited' as you will not get it unless you have a consultation with a vet or import illegally.
S

 

[greatbritishhoney]

There are no 'loopholes being exploited' as you will not get it unless you have a consultation with a vet or import illegally.
S

So how does someone in surrey have a consultation with a vet in Scotland?
I don't claim to be an expert on these matters but it sounds very much like "licensing" in this context is no different than it being sold by anyone else.

 

[Stiffy]

So how does someone in surrey have a consultation with a vet in Scotland?
I don't claim to be an expert on these matters but it sounds very much like "licensing" in this context is no different than it being sold by anyone else.

The same as if you contacted NHS direct. You advise on the problem and they then (hopefully) provide a solution.

It is not a loophole, no conspiracy theory, nothing underhand, the bees will continue to fly, produce honey and sting and you won’t suddenly turn into a three breasted Ninja for using it!

In fact, if the company producing Apivar were willing to pay the £20,000+ registration fee to our government it would be sold more widely

The product is available here legally, you do not have to use it but faced with a very bad varroa problem it is a solution.
Like any treatment, Apivar is no different than treating your dog for a bad infestation of fleas; you treat the outbreak but don’t keep pouring it on.

 

[Brosville]

And do you honestly tell us that you're happy to sell honey to people without warning them that you've used a chemical in your hives that causes the following...

"The common signs of amitraz poisoning exhibited by a cat include staggering, disorientation, dilated pupils, seizures, diarrhea and vomiting. A veterinary examination also shows a lowering of body temperature, slow heart rate and a raised blood glucose level. Untreated a cat may go into a coma and die"

And are quite happy to go to unusual lengths to obtain it, and your conscience is entirely clear?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Stiffy, I'm not trying to point the finger at anyone or infer any kind of under-handedness, my point is simply that if the vet in question will sell the product to anyone who phones up and asks for it, then how is that any different from it being available from Th***es, for example.
That's why I described it as a loophole - it's not approved in the UK yet you can buy it from a vet. If that's not a loophole then I don't know what is.
I'm questioning the system rather than anyone involved in buying or selling the product.

I don't see the connection with NHS direct - that's an advice service, they don't dispense drugs.

 

[thedeaddiplomat]

Forgive me for being naive. I do hope someone can enlighten me.

Is honey produced in the EU not freely (some would say too freely) available in the UK? And is Apivar not widely (some might argue too widely) used throughout the EU to control varroa?

If so, and if Apivar produces the dire consequences of which Brosville speaks, is it not too late to protect the great British public (which all too frequently focuses on the cost rather than the value of what it consumes)?

If the above is all true, then I can certainly understand - and even applaud - the thesis that the moral high ground is nevertheless the place to be. But it does strike me that some would see this as another case where the rest of the world is out of step.

 

[Ruth85]

Amitraz is poisonous to CATS, it is perfectly safe for dogs, its stupid owners putting it on cats that causes the problem, i see this many a times despite the large sign and wording DO NOT USE ON CATS. We use this product to treat mange very effectively when nothing else does the job effectively. Various other products sold in the super market have the same effect on cats but the VMD has not removed the license for it to be sold in the supermarkets (surely if it causes so much problem then it should only be sold under the guidance of a vet. Ask any vet or vet nurse which product should be removed from shelves in the supermarket and i am sure they will all say the same.
We have to get a special import licenses for many drugs used in the veterinary world to be able to use them in the UK because they have not be officially licensed for sale in the UK, it does not mean that they cannot be used in the uk.
With direct knowledge and use of Amitraz, if i ever have a large varroa problem, then i would consider using the product.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hmmm Muswell, didnt we PM this last October?


Cheers
S

Stiffy, yes, we discussed last year , if you see the date on my post that you just replied to, it was posted in January 2010 over 15 months ago

That is before out discussion in autumn 2010

The thread has been resurrected by someone posting today on my original query from January 2010


All i will say is , that i now have very few varroa

 

[Brosville]

"it is perfectly safe for dogs" - you would bet your life on that would you? - I'd say that it is FAR safer to say, "as far as we're told by the manufacturers there are no effects that can be blamed on it", which is an entirely different kettle of toxicity - I don't for a second question it's "efficacy" at killing things, I just worry what other damage it could do to other species....
The attitude displayed by some people in this thread underlines just how cavalier people are in their use of "chemicals", and how careful it pays us to be when sourcing things to eat...

I feel it apposite to mention that our old friend neonicotinoids are widely sold as a "spot-on" treatment for pets.....(which is another product I avoid at all costs)

I fail to understand why people find it necessary to resort to sledgehammers, when good competent beekeepers manage with far gentler, safer remedies.........

 

[MuswellMetro]

And do you honestly tell us that you're happy to sell honey to people without warning them that you've used a chemical in your hives that causes the following...

And are quite happy to go to unusual lengths to obtain it, and your conscience is entirely clear?

well the VMD will ban Oxalic Acid once the new oxalic treatment that is a powder you mix with a syrup in a special container when goes through the VMD channels and pays £20,000

that approval is expected to happen this year, so any one using standard 3% oxalic preparation will then be using an illegal product and enviromnetal health will be able to destroy your honey

the current status of the new oxalic product is the same as Apivar and many other products

as Apivar like the new oxaclic product is approved under EU regulation in an EU country and can be imported into any other EU country by a Vet to sell to beekeepers, any Vet can import it and sell it

 

[Ruth85]

yes it is safe for dogs if used CORRECTLY! i use it to treat dogs and i am a vet nurse. I use the product myself to actually bath the dogs!i have had first had experience with tis product. Yes other members do have successful ways of treating varroa but others have large problems that need to be dealt with.
Its up to each beek what they use and you can't judge someone by what they use its unfair.
If products like Amitraz and permethrin were not used to treat nasty little critters then we would be overun with the things!

 

[Brosville]

Crazy innit? - I'm with Chris Luck on this and use none of those things

 

[Brosville]

I've found a good hoover, a flea comb and a bar of soap very effective for dog fleas, and a damned sight safer for all concerned!
I have grave doubts about the safety of "spot-on" treatments, and won't allow any of my animals to be treated using them - as in all things, there are safer proven remedies that do not involve these relatively new and often systemic treatments - as I said, you are TOLD by the manufacturers that the products are safe - that's what they said about organochlorines, organophosphates, ddt etc, etc etc........ and after a few years (when it's too late) the true toxicity becomes too evident for the companies to hush up any more........

 

[MuswellMetro]

this is the list

"Products Authorised for Import under the Special Import Scheme

The following products have been approved for importation under the Special Import Scheme (SIC). However, if you wish to import a different product you may still apply for a SIC.

It is an offence to import any veterinary medicinal product without an approval from the VMD under the SIC scheme.


Checkmite + * Coumaphos Bayer Animal Health

Apivar Amitraz Veto-Pharma SA

Nonosz Ortho-Hydroxy-Benzoic-Acid Sodium Salt Solution

Formidol Formic Acid Bee Research Institute

Ecoxal Oxalic Acid Ceva Salud Animale SA

* Please note an application for Checkmite must be made by post. The applicant will need to present a justification for product importation before approval may be given.


just like buying codamol or 400mg nuerofen, you go to the pharmacist but cant buy it at Tescos

 

[Brosville]

they'll have a helluva job trying to enforce licencing on "nestduftwärmebindung"

 

[Chris Luck]

Personally I'd like to see all products and treatments that have been used on the bees listed on the "Honey pot". Give the public the facts and a real choice what to buy and support.

Chris

 

[Stiffy]

Stiffy, yes, we discussed last year , if you see the date on my post that you just replied to, it was posted in January 2010 over 15 months ago

That is before out discussion in autumn 2010

The thread has been resurrected by someone posting today on my original query from January 2010

All i will say is , that i now have very few varroa

Sorry didnt look at the date of post, glad to hear that like with mine your mite problem has been drastically reduced
S

 

[Stiffy]

And do you honestly tell us that you're happy to sell honey to people without warning them that you've used a chemical in your hives that causes the following...


Yep perfectly happy same as anyone selling honey that comes from a hive that has been treated with Thymol, Oxalic or any other treatment ie medicine...that nasty word that frightens some people.
I could sprinkle fairy dust (icing sugar ) on them and let them suffer until the decline is such that the colony fails. I respect my bees too much to allow that to happen!

Apivar
Investigations designed to detect residues of active substance in honey, wax, propolis and pollen have shown that you may harvest these products immediately after the end of the treatment period, no withdrawal time being necessary. Pity the same cant be said for Thymol!


And are quite happy to go to unusual lengths to obtain it, and your conscience is entirely clear?

I just followed the regulations not unusual, fairly simple for someone with half a brain and yep my conscience is very very clear.........is yours?

 

[Ruth85]

And without some of the products used for treating fleas and ticks we would have some hell of diseases spread round but never mind, Rabies and other deadly diseases would be in this country if we all thought that chemicals and using vaccine is wrong.
Its each to their own what they wish to use..........